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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

960 replies

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 16:23

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

OP posts:
littletreesmum · 03/11/2010 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

catinthehat2 · 03/11/2010 21:37

Good Grin. Was I particularly rude on this thread? Confused.

But do remember that anything you can google, everyone else can google better and draw their own conclusions I'm afraid.

It's the modern world you know.

herbietea · 03/11/2010 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

earwicga · 03/11/2010 21:38

No Appletrees. That would be an utterly stupid thing to think.

Nancy66 · 03/11/2010 21:38

Take your daughter to the imperial war museum.

My dear old grandad - 90 this year - will still not talk about his experiences in the war. Goodness knows what he must have suffered - and it wasn't like he had a choice either.

It's all about respect.

thefirstmrsDeVeerie · 03/11/2010 21:39

Well my OH joined because he was the youngest of 12 children and his older brothers were, one by one, going to prison and dealing drugs.

He joined to get out of all that.

Unfortunately he joined a year before Gulf war one kicked off and he ended up on the front line for most of the war conflict.

He is a good man. He is proud of serving his country and I am proud of him. He was demobbed disgorged from the services with PTSD and fuck all else.

I can hate war, hate the army but love the man who did what he signed up to do and did it well. (apart from when he lost that tank but we dont talk about that)

Life is rarely, if ever, simple.

Most 14 year olds do not realise this, I would expect grown women to have more of a grasp however.

Guacamole · 03/11/2010 21:40

catholic atheist

"I have two cousins in the armed forces and I feel very sorry for them."

You may feel sorry for them, that is your choice, but I am proud of them and I don't even know them.

"They did it to get out of shitty families"

And have probably found a new family of like minded men and women... the camararderie of serving soldiers is an amazing thing.

"and have very little understanding of Britain's position in a global and diplomatic context"

And you do?

Anyway, this is completely off topic... Back to the OP... I would find a white poppy offensive.

redflag · 03/11/2010 21:41

Let her be a martyr and get in trouble for not going. If she is unable to grasp poppies are not a pro war thing, let her get on with it.

And remind her, the reason she is able to choose what to wear, where she goes and what war to slag off is because the people those poppies represent were battling for our freedom!

SkeletonFlowers · 03/11/2010 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 21:42

Thank you all for your opinions (apart from the cunt commeNt - you can fuck off)

very useful all and will give her (and me) alot to think about.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 03/11/2010 21:42

that is a dreadful experience for your dh, MrsFDV. i do hope some better times ahead for you

and to anyone else who has had a harrowing experience or lost loved one,vast majority of public do support and value service personnel.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 21:43

Real peace-lovin' talk there gallum

Guacamole · 03/11/2010 21:43

I'd also request OP that you get your daughter to read every single one of these 310 (and still counting) posts.

dementedma · 03/11/2010 21:44

Skipped a lot of this so apologies if I repeat other posts but for what it's worth I wear a red poppy and find a white one offensive. The argument that the red one glorifies war and the white one supports pacifism is bollocks IMO. No-one in their right mind "supports" war, we would all like a peaceful resolution to conflict. I wear the red to remember the fallen, many of them conscripts. We holiday often in Normandy, and have visited many cemeteries containing the now old bones of British, American, French and German young men, and we pray for them all. I have also been to Arnhem, where my uncle led a Welsh paratroop regiment and had his leg shot off,and to Auschwitz - can't even begin to put that into words Sad
DH and I insist that the DCs attend the ceremony at the local cenotaph every year, and one of my proudest moments was watching my "little" brother lay the wreath at the local cenotaph on behalf of the Royal Navy.
You don't need a white poppy to be against war ffs - we are all against it. it's just that some of us show respect for those who died fighting for our freedom. your daughter iis young and opinionated - we've all been ther, but to wear a white poppy at a remembrance service would be grossly insensitive. If she doesn't understand why, she should not attend.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 21:44

Absolutely Scottish. Absolutely

GothAnneGeddes · 03/11/2010 21:47

My Dad was in the army for many, many years, served in all the usual places including Gulf War 1 and I'm still anti war.

I know why people join, I know that they aren't bad people, but I disagree with war and so I wear a white poppy.

GothAnneGeddes · 03/11/2010 21:47

My Dad was in the army for many, many years, served in all the usual places including Gulf War 1 and I'm still anti war.

I know why people join, I know that they aren't bad people, but I disagree with war and so I wear a white poppy.

SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 03/11/2010 21:49

I think it would be a far more effective anti-war protest for your DD to refuse to attend the service and ask the school to choose someone else. After all, the school can't shoot her, or expel her, even.
Is the school ordering her to attend this service in order to punish her for her goddamned commie unchristian surrender-monkey etc opinions in the first place, or something? Or is it just bad luck that the class anti-war super-pacifist is the one chosen to attend the service?

Alambil · 03/11/2010 21:53

don't we use red poppies because of Flander's Fields?

I mean, they're not used because red is the colour of blood or any of that. They're used because they grew between the rows of the fallen in Flanders Feilds in WW1 but WW2 is commented on more, being the most recent.

Or am I wrong? (happy to be put right)

Donki · 03/11/2010 21:55

I think that remembering the dead of both world wars, and more recent conflicts is important - "When we bow our heads in reflection, we remember those who fought for our freedom during the two World Wars. But we also mourn and honour those who have lost their lives in more recent conflicts" (British Legion)

But I also wish to remember the civilians and the casualties on all sides of the conflicts, who like the British/allied soldiers fought because they thought it was the right thing to do, or because they had no choice. Thus the red poppy seems inadequate to the task, so I choose to wear a white poppy.

I think that the OPs daughter should be able to make this choice if she wishes.

(I often also wear a red poppy, recognising that other people may misunderstand the point of the white poppy.)

LunarRose · 03/11/2010 21:56

Freedom of speech is s right that many people were prepared to die for, If your daughter wants to respect this, she should at the very least be prepared to accept any trouble that her non attendance might cause.

A red poppy is about respect. If OP can't show that then she should not attend.

Donki · 03/11/2010 21:57

Oh, and yes, I am a pacifist - and a Quaker (if relevant)

thefirstmrsDeVeerie · 03/11/2010 22:01

Thank you Scottish. It was a long time ago and he is fine really. So much has happened since then and he did get a lot out of his time in the army.

Unfortunately I am not convinced that the fact he has MS and that DD died from an agressive strain of Leukemia are unconnected. But of course we will never know.

Anyway, thats by the by. I am anti war, I dont belive that every member of the services is a sainted hero, I dont glorify in our military past BUT I do feel we need to rememer and respect those who have died in the service of this country.

Not in an unthinking, uncritical way. That is what caused the carnage in 1914-18. If we continue to use the Poppy and Rememberance day as a jumping off point to THINK about what has happened, surely that is a good thing?

The money from the poppies is not going to buy arms is it? Its helping those who need it. IME the services do very little once they have finished with you.

It is GOOD for teenagers to have views, too many are passive and lethargic. Did someone really call a 14 year old girl a cunt? Bloody hell.

When I was that age I very probably thought the same way. Because I didnt have a bloody clue. I do now and I will keep the silence and wear a poppy.

I tell you what though. I bloody hate all this competitive poppy wearing and patriotism [not on the thread, in general] . It doesnt ring true to me at all. Just as attention seeking as, say, a 14 year old wearing a white poppy Grin

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 03/11/2010 22:02

So it is fine to say "they died for our freedoms", even though the vast vast majority of British combat deaths in the last century were in conflicts that were far from defensive?

It just seems dishonest to me. Most of those boys were wasted in pointless conflicts with who knows what purpose. There is never a good time to say that, it seems.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 03/11/2010 22:04

x-post Mrs deVere. Great post, and I'm so sorry about your DD, and to hear about your DH's illness.