to keep longing to home educate my DC's

[ValentinCrimble]

I find school tough...there's always something I am unhappy with or suspicious of...I KNOW the kids are fine...it's a good school...I know that they will get through it all and have an education/friends and all that...but I keep thinking that they would have all that anyway and without my having to support the 6 year old with reams of homework every night and crap reading scheme books.

Is it still thought of as odd or weird to home ed? I sense a bit of a change in people's opinions recently...DC is in a private prep...money is not an issue as we are lucky enough to have a bursary...don't know how I would deal with state as our local one is notoriously bad (I am talking rife with bullies and under special measures) and the others are rammed to the gills with locals on waiting lists.

I'm not unhappy with the school as such but feel that its an awful lot to trust strangers with my DC's education...come on...give me your best for and againsts of home ed?

"....it's just me..."

The parent has to count in this equation too love.

Lots of parents cope with poor standards in some Italian schools (both Italians and expats) without wibbling all over the shop till the director of the school hides in his office when he hears the familiar clip clop of stilettos and a British accent muttering to itself all the way up the stairs. Again.

It was beyond my comfort zone and despite doing my level best to transmogrify myself into somebody who could cope with it sans Mount Etna like explosions all over my husband yelling ?your bloody country?? in my frustration... I didn't manage to have a personality transplant.

So I got counted into the factors to consider when we were working out what the hell to do with the situation we had to deal with, to give our chosen solution the best chance of success. Our son was in pole postion, but my feelings were a long way from being an irrelevance.

If you find yourself ever more unhappy with his experience at school, despite looking for ways to minimize both how it impacts you (and by extension him), then I don't see how that can't be taken into account when weighing up your options.

We are mums, not robots who gave up all personality, passions, foibles and hot spots when we gave birth.

You are talking about maybe HEing him, not handing him over to be raised by wolves. It is a perfectly reasonable choice among many perfectly reasonable choices and the best fit education wise tends to take into account the parent(s) AND the kid in combination, since both are involved.

Which is why I don't think the home ed is THE cure all for all educational ills, because if a parent has serious misgivings about it, no matter what might work for the kid in theory, it is unlikely to be a stellar experience for either of them and unlikely to be ?better? than all the alternatives.

You have a wonderful trip ahead of you and a great opportunity for both of you to ?suck it and see? when it comes to HE, once you are back you might find that one way or the other (or even another with a third option like flexi schooling) you have a clearer idea of what will work for both of you in practice, at least for the time being.

All we can do is make the child the central concern and bear in mind the reality of who we are when working out which way to jump when making our choices, to ensure that the solution has ?stickability?. That goes for all aspects of parenthood, so obviously it includes education too.

You obviously love your son to bits and have a clear vision of what issues are yours and what issues are his, without the need to transfer yours onto him to make it easy to ignore his perspective. That means whatever you decide he has the most important building block any kid needs, a parent who makes him the priority.

I?m sure you?ll do just fine at working out what to do and following though to the best of your ability with the above as a foundation.

'....it's just me...sometimes I struggle with conforming...always have done.'

But does your DC struggle with conforming? I can't see why your problems are relevant-unless she takes after you.

No I spend hours planning my lesson because I love the subject I teach and want to convey it in the way that will suit that class. I don't teach to a strict curriculum at all, we choose what we want to teach in keys stage 3. We also choose the exam boards for key stage 4 and five and then the units we will teach although beyond that there are limitations. My classes range from 4 - 30 students. I can spend hours planning a lesson for my class of four.

"No I spend hours planning my lesson because I love the subject I teach"

I'd just like to second that. I can get so caught up in the process of pinning down my ideas and turning them into something tangible that my family has to howl loudly to be fed before I can tear myself away long enough to hurl some pasta at them and stomp off chuntering about constant interruptions.

Unfortunately while many family members\friends will coo politely over a dried flower arrangement or a lovely picture that their loved one presents as the result of the creative process, few are prepared to pour over your plans for the third conditional with the same kind of enthusiasm.

I had 5 months earlier this year where I was doing one to one tuition with year 6 children in a school. I spent hours and hours on it.
I had 7 pupils in total, some for Literacy, some for Maths and some for both. Each one was different so I couldn't use the same plan for each-not only were they different in terms of what they needed to know but they were very different in the way that it suited them to learn. I couldn't all the lessons in advance because it was child led and where they got to in one lesson dictated what came next. Do not make the mistake of thinking that letting the child lead and have control over their learning is easy-I think it is more difficult!
They are not machines and you have to spend hours finding suitable material and working out how to put it across, (if you don't like the word teach). Getting a DC to understand percentages is a real challenge when you try all ways and they are still in a fog! We got there in the end, but only because I was continually planning and adapting. They don't just pick it up for themselves and they would have been very upset to have me say, in a patronising way,'never mind dear -I expect you will pick it up when you are ready'.
Some of them wanted to be taught and they wanted to keep going until they got it-like a dog at a bone. Others had short attention spans and needed plenty of variety with games etc. Some needed to be very hands on.
I could concentrate on one at a time-I didn't have children of a different age group that I was trying to fit in.
They child may well be the one taking the lead but the adult has to be a step ahead-you are not doing your best for the child if you think that you can just sit back and it will be a doddle!
Someone earlier was talking about very young children and 20 minutes of workbooks and then play. I wouldn't do that, I would work the pencil control into the play. This all takes time and imagination. It is a lot simpler to let them play and then say 'right workbook time' and get out a mass produced book-but is it the best you can do for your DC? If they are anything like my DSs, it isn't- and it would put them off writing.(Of course some DCs would love it-they are all individuals).

Sorry-should have read couldn't plan all the lessons in advance.

Sarahitaly, some really good posts. I particularly like the Tue 12-Oct-10 22:19:55 one.

I thought Sarahitaly had a good post too. HE is just another educational choice.

I particularly agree with

'You obviously love your son to bits and have a clear vision of what issues are yours and what issues are his, without the need to transfer yours onto him to make it easy to ignore his perspective. That means whatever you decide he has the most important building block any kid needs, a parent who makes him the priority.'

The DC should come first and parental issues with schools should stay firmly out of it.
It depends on what suits her DS, and then the other DCs in the family may be completely different.

"and parental issues with schools should stay firmly out of it."

That wasn't how sarahitaly's post read to me. I liked the way she included the parent's feelings in the equation. While the child might take precedence, the parent (issues included) also has to be considered before a decision can be made as shown here:

"So I got counted into the factors to consider when we were working out what the hell to do with the situation we had to deal with, to give our chosen solution the best chance of success. Our son was in pole postion, but my feelings were a long way from being an irrelevance."

' have a clear vision of what issues are yours and what issues are his, without the need to transfer yours onto him to make it easy to ignore his perspective.'

I was responding to this statement in particular, juuule. OP doesn't like conforming-it seems irrelevant to me-whether her DC likes conforming is all that matters. OP finds school tough, but does DS find school tough? At 6 yrs old he shouldn't be having to worry about how his mother feels-she should hide it. If he confides that he finds it tough she could, at that point, tell him.

I think I may have had a clarity fail in my post. I blame the anti histamines (was ruthlessly attacked by a hacked off wasp who took exception to my touching his honeysuckle).

What I was trying to get across was the importance of making the child the priority in tandem with factoring in the parents? leanings, in order to create sustainable choices. Cos if you work with what comes more naturally the family is more likely to end up with a choice that meets the kid?s needs in a way that is a good(ish) fit for all, which is more likely to lead to good(ish) practice.

So unsurprisingly I don't agree with this statement.....

?"The DC should come first and parental issues with schools should stay firmly out of it."

.... any more that I'd agree with this .....

"The DC should come first and parental issues with home education should stay firmly out of it."

..... in a discussion about a child wanting to be home educated by a mother with major misgivings about the concept, her ability to do it well, or her need to conform to what is seen as "normal".

I don't think having parental leanings factored in is exclusive to the question of HE v school either. IMO it has its place pretty much accross the whole spectrum of choices parents make. From birth plans, how you feed\nappy your infant, WOH v SAH etc. etc....right through to when you are discussing their higher ed\travel round the world plans with them.

It?s all about parents setting themselves up to succeed in meeting their children?s needs. Rather than resolutely ignoring who they are and placing themselves at an increased risk of failure, by basing their choices on the abilities of imaginary, perfect parents instead of their own.

What is vital in the process above is that parents do what the OP very clearly did. Recognize what is a personal leaning and successfully resist any temptation to indulge in transference, thus allowing the child?s needs (and place as the priority) to get usurped by the backdoor.

Hijack alert!

Sarahinitaly thanks for posting the links again, I'm rather shocked by that story (which I totally missed when it was reported).

Yes, shuffling is a big problem. A big problem of Italian schools (both state and private I'd say) is that they are not inspected and that there isn't any commission that can "quantify" the teachers' experience, etc. And as you know schools don't have the autonomy to hire who suit them.

All these problems aren't addressed by the reform, which is just cutting resources, without any pedagogic foundation/principle.

Apologies for the hijack!

You missed it cos ...well if you blinked you would miss it. It was rather under reported. No big splashy headlines, no Porta a Porta about it.

I think it only got a tiny look in on the TV news, I caught it on youtube but I don't think it was one of the bigger channels. If it hadn't been up the road from me I doubt I would have come across it at all.

The Cip Cop case got loads of coverage, but this one and the one that happen just after

www.corriere.it/cronache/10_marzo_26/violenze-asilo-ferrara_ae9fd736-38c6-11df-97c8-00144f02aabe.shtml (with more stripping of kids) seemed to be under the radar.

Totally agree with on the lack of autonomy re hiring, the school director (when his patience with me was wearing really thin) yelled "do you really think I WANT these people in my school !!"

It wouldn't matter so much if the concorso was merit based, but the points system ...ARGGGGGGG !

I always get tied in knots trying to say what I think Sarahitaly-I don't disagree with anything in your post-it all seems very sensible.

post of 21.43-cross posted with next.

Sarahinitaly

That is truly horrendous.

I know. Makes your heart sink.

Can I just say, thanks for posting this - it's really given me some food for thought. :)

Can I ask a question - and it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to get a discussion going as such - what do you do when DCs reach 'secondary school' age? I think I'd cope with primary level stuff (and that is said without any offence meant to primary teachers - I trained as a primary teacher initially, but decided it wasn't for me and went into secondary) but when 'subjects' become more complicated, what do you do? Maths for example? I got an A for Higher Maths oh, about 12 years ago, but there's no way on this earth I could remember any of it. Languages I could teach no problem (that's what I teach at the moment) and because of that I'd be fine with English, Music would also be fine because it's a passion of mine and I'm very knowledgeable in that area, but Maths, Science etc? Nah... So what do you do then? And how do you do PE?

I suspect I'm thinking about this all wrong - that HE is not about individual subjects, but about the overall, right? So how do qualifications work?

I love the idea of HE, but no idea about the practicalities. I seriously doubt there'd be much support for me up here either. Good on you, those of you who do it for the right reasons and do it successfully. :)

I haven't done it myself, but I imagine secondary level might be almost easier because they work more independently then anyway. PE you would cover by sports clubs/courses/swimming and any other type of outdoor activities they wanted to do. For the maths and science curriculum there are lots of online resources, and lots of museums etc to visit for science.

I was not HE'd, but during a brief visit to a UK school I managed to get 5 O'levels in subjects I was not studying at home- just by finding out what the requirements were and reading up beforehand with the support of my parents- imagine this would be far easier to do in the days of the internet.

So teaching to the exam?

No, just kidding, I do see your point. Thanks.

I imagine you would spend most of your time not teaching to the exam, and just do a brief review at revision time to check you were up to scratch.

@backwardpossom

There are a variety of different options ranging from self study, ?real world? tutors, online subscription services with or without access to tutors, the parents carrying on etc. It kind of depends on the approach that the family has taken to HE. From what I can gather OU is fairly popular with many HEed kids of secondary school age.

Speaking personally one area that is interesting to me is the growth in online schools like this one for example..academus.org.uk/ .. I?ll be interested to see how they have developed by the time my son is secondary school age. I?ll probably try it for English at some point early on during KS3 for a year to see how he does in that format first. I?m going to have to think about how to jiggle the timings because I still have to cover the Italian NC as well as giving him access to learning in English.

Due to the practical aspect of science I?m also looking into science camps. Just about everybody I?m related to is some kind of sciency type (inc. a former secondary school science teacher) who will collectively revolt if he doesn?t get access to a lab on a regular(ish) basis when he is big.

For Italian I?ll be carrying on with lesson swops (I teach you/your kid English, you take mine for Italian). Ditto Spanish and German. If he doesn?t lose his crush on Chinese I suppose I?ll end up thrusting that into the lesson swop group too.

This isn?t intended to be the definitive answer the question, just an outline of the sort of ideas I am playing around with as I panic about carefully research his education further on down the line.

You?ll probably get as many different answers as there are home educators ( :

Thanks, it's really interesting and useful to read the replies. :)

Just read through this whole thread & have found it very interesting. I particularly found SarahItaly's posts very enlightening & interesting. And refreshingly free of ideology, well at least fanatical ideology (which is often, as I've found from HE people I've met, a large part of the reason they make this choice).

My main concern with HE- although I can see many of the benefit- is the following (and this is addressed a bit more to SarahItaly who has given such reasoned responses so far- but to others too):

How can you trust yourself- one person, after all, with all that entails: the pluses & minuses, all the prejudices, the beliefs, the weaknesses, the love & the problems etc- with the education of your children? Personally I find the idea that lots of different people will play a role in my son's life quite reassuring. However good a parent one is, the idea that they and only they will necessarily be the best influence on their child's life (and education is secondary here) is scary to me, as it presupposes quite a bit of self-certainty.

Everyone keeps saying 'how can I trust others with the education of my child' etc and as much as I can see the merit of this question, I want to turn it around & ask 'how can we trust ourselves'? Surely there's an argument that it's better to allow your children to open themselves up to many different experiences & the influence of many different people which only a school education guarantees?

Hope that makes sense.

My son (dyslexic and with anxiety issues) told me the other day that if he has children he will HE them. I felt really sad because he has struggled at school and I often thought about HE him, but I felt that he should learn not to run away from challenges (he is now a very determined boy, so maybe that worked). I also didn't want him to lose out on the social side (although now he says that he doesn't get on with most of the children in his year anyway, although you wouldn't know it when you see him in the playground). He is doing OK at school now and is enthusiastic about starting secondary school next year, but I always keep HE in mind in case things go wrong again.

Anyway, with reference to the OP, my main issue is: how do people HE and earn money themselves? Is it only for the wealthy? This would be one of the main reasons I wouldn't HE. I work at home, but I can only do it when DC are out. How on earth do people find time to HE - including preparing topics etc - and do their own work? Also, we couldn't afford to pay for all the extra clubs that DS might require if we HE. So how do HEds afford all this?