to like someone less because their political views revolt me

[yellowflowers]

A friend has got more and more right wing. It's depressing because when we met years ago as students we bonded over being lefties and in favour of helping those less fortunate and we both enjoyed debating issues. I still like debating things and don't need all my friends to think the same as me - far from it - but the more I hear of this person's views the less I think they are someone I want to spend time with because her views on poor people and on state education etc offend me. Is it wrong to see less of someone just for this reason?

if all state school education was equal then fair enough. How is it fair that some kids get allocated the crappier state schools while the better off can buy their way into better schools by living in more exclusive cachement areas. Is that much different from buying a private education? Or would all the parents who send their kids to the 'nicer' state schools be prepared to give up their places to kids given the crappier school. As it stands, my kids attend a nice primary school but the follow on school has one of the worst reps in town and it does worry me.

wow finally something a little more interesting :) sorry op this doesn't really answer you aibu or not but oooh well here goes ..... my dp is a really chilled guy, never judges peolpe he has always believed each to their own, although i always found it odd that his best friend is a fully fledged racist with pretty fucking scary views. in the 8 years we have been together i have never understood how their friendship works but it does even though they have completley different political views. so i think it is possible for a friendship to survive but it takes work.

would probably have to draw the line at racist, homophic views though I somtetimes raise an eyebrow at some friends and family comments. Don't have a problem with friends voting for different political parties, being religious (we are not), being from a different social class or background and certainly not for having a private education - as long as they are all nice and reasonable people. Not everyone who has had a private education is a hooray henry.

My dad always voted Tory believing in not relying on the state and making the most of yourself, and the trickle down effect of capitalism despite a working class background.
My mother voted labour when we were young (think she went a bit lib dem when older) and came from a strong trade union background with father and brother union officials.
They had a long and happy marriage however and it taught me you can have differing political views and still share some essential beliefs in how you treat people etc even if you have different ideas on how the world should work.
Believing your way is the right way and all other ways are wrong sounds like treating politics like a fundamentalist religion to me.
As I get older I increasingly find bits in all the parties I like and bits I don't, and hate the short termism of all politicians.

Haven?t read the thread but an opinion is like an asshole really. We all have one. I am extremely right wing because I believe in freedom and that human nature is a non-convertible asset (just invented that one ? like it) but as my best friend is a Welsh unionist of the mining community then perhaps it is down to traits. In our case it seems to be sense of humour, but then again I am extremely weird or maybe just fundamentally not prejudiced (maybe.. you decide based on my posts)

Ps love from the troll, male, whatever else crime I may have been accused of

Well now I have read a little of the thread but at the risk of sounding simple, why are so many people so strident in their liberalism except for those who are not liberal. Ummmmm..... what can this mean?
Perhaps one should delve a little deeper before espousing?

I am a liberal but I hate homophobes, racists, Tories...... but where do you draw the line? What if someone was a trade unionist, vegetarian, racist, homophobe? Would your head expode first, or theirs?

jamee - because it's the beauty of calling someone else a bigot.

And I do understand how people can find racisim/homophobia/sexism/etc. repellent, however - people are (in the UK) given the freedom to have these views and voice them! It is bonkers to think that we are Borg!

I couldn't be friends with someone who was racist or homophobic.

And I don't think I'd have much in common wiht someone who was disinterested in politics.

I do think actually, that the left do often surround themselves with the like minded. I was a party activist for years and some of my peers only had friends within the other party activists.

Personally, I'm happy to have frineds on all sides, so long as they are politically literate. DH is more right wing than me, but incredibly well versed in politics, and his positions are always soundly analyzed. I may not agree with him, but can respect his well-thought through positions.

Going back to the OP - you say your friend's views offend you. If they offend you then it's perfectly reasonable to move away from that person. Even if it's not offensive in the BNP/EDL kind of way IYKWIM.

Personally, I find it extremely difficult to be friends with anyone right of centre (if I said to the right of me that'd be pretty much everyone, so..) but that's because political and social beliefs are really important to me. I certainly wouldn't have married my DH if he was a Tory [shudders at the thought]

What people see as important for friendships to work differs massively. If it's important to you, and her/his views bother you then, no, it's not wrong of you imo. I know I'd do it.

scanty not all middle class people cynically and deliberately set out to 'buy their way' into a better school by moving into an exclusive catchment area. That assumption is lazy and over-simplistic. You make it sound as though schools have a good or a bad status which is cast in stone, and the house prices are set accordingly.

I'm fairly confident in saying that if the 'best' school around just happened to be in the middle of an ugly housing estate, surrounded by crack dens and gangs, the middle classes may (just may) be applying for a place, and paying to have their children driven in and out each day, but they won't be queuing up to buy the houses.

Has it occurred to you that the root of this situation lies with the families, and not the with school, or the house prices? Good schools tend to be good because of the children in them. If a social experiment forced all schools to mix up across socio-economic divides, only then would we be able to say a school was truly good or bad, beacuse we'd be judging the value added, and assuming they were all starting from the same baseline, in terms of the intake.

Better-educated, socially responsible, self-diciplined self-motivated people tend to earn good money. They lead less chaotic lives. That enables them to buy nice houses in nice areas. They send their children to the local school. Their children (for all the reasons we know and I won't bore you with) tend, on the whole, to have fewer ishoos with behaviour, discipline, attendance, concentration, etc, and are generally more open and receptive authority, and better equipped to cope with routine and commitment.

That is what makes the school good. The pupils in it, and the high expectations of their parents.

'Fairness' doesn't come into it.

I agree it's not fair that some kids are born into challenging, chaotic, dysfunctional circumstances - life's not fair, never has been never will be. But lay the blame for their failure to thrive in education firmly at the feet of middle class parents for being able to afford to live in the nicer end of town is pointless and blinkered.

Better-educated, socially responsible, self-diciplined self-motivated people tend to earn good money. They lead less chaotic lives.

So basically you're saying that those who don't earn good money (whatever the hell 'good' actually means) are ill-educated, socially irresponsible, ill-disciplined, unmotivated and lead chaotic lives. You can't be serious with this?

curious. Those who are to the far left, who far left do your beliefs go - how would you want politics, the country and society to function? I'd say I'm centre left if that makes sense but was much more left thinking when growing up. What was your upbringing like? I was born into working class where everyone round me was the same - no outlet really to any other social class or political views, so perhaps obviously drifted to the left. Might have been a Tory or Liberal if had a nice middle class upbringing with other nice middle class kids.
As an adult I've lived in different countries, mixing with every race, culture, religion, social class (or anyway much higher than I was brought up with) - wonder if that makes me more open and tolerant to others views and beliefs. Interesting subject.

No I am absolutely not asying that. Hence the word 'tend'

But I'm not surprised you chose to see it that way.

But the point is that most children who are 'disadvantaged' by their parents low socio-economic status tend to go the the 'bad' schools, do they not? At least I'm assuming they do, otherwise where does this constant bee in the bonnet about the MC stranglehold on 'good' schools come from?

I saw the word 'tend' thank you, but your comment still seems bizarre. I wasn't seriously 'accusing' you of being totally unreasonable, just wondering if you'd actually read what you'd written.

But I'm not surprised you chose to see it that way.

Umm, why exactly are you not suprised? Possibly because that's how it comes across? Or could it be because I made a comment about being pretty left wing, and therefore I'm unreasonable and will jump on anything as an attack against the working classes? I'm gussing the latter, though of course I could be wrong. If I'm right, however, then, well I don't think I need to say in how many ways that's utter bollocks.

scanty I know that probably wasn't aimed at me directly, but being left wing doesn't mean I'm intolerant. Neither does not wanting to marry a Tory. I don't think Tories should be shot, or not be able to say what they want, I just couldn't marry one or, really, be friends with one. That doesn't make me intolerant, it's my personal choice about the friendships I make and keep. Which, incidently, was the original point of this thred.

Fellatio, - that is not what I was saying at all, i agree with much of what you wrote actually. What I was addressing was that some posters seem to have a huge issue with private education and how unfair it is. What I was trying to point out is that the state system is unfair as well and can come down to money being able to get their kids possibly a better education and a 'nicer' school experience though I'm not convinced that the more failing schools can't offer a decent education to the more striving pupils who have the support from parents etc. Just wonder if the ones so against Private education are lucky enough to et their kids into a decent state school or if they would change their mind if their kids school was faining and dangerous or if they happened to come into plenty of money - making private education an option. Still finding this topic very interesting!

I have been skimming through this thread with interest - differing political views are a fact of life. I have to admit I sometimes avoid discussing politics with people that I feel may be completely at odds with my own in order to be able to still chat with them comfortably chat with them in the playground.

I believe that only mixing with people of exactly the same political persuasion is me is both limiting and quite difficult to acheive. I also like a good political argument discussion. I studied poiltics and have a sister who works for SWP so we have a politically active family. I do not always agree with my dsis as I see the SWP as a cult rather politically entrenched and blinkered organisation. But I still enjoy attending the odd Marxism conference meeting. If confronted with offensive racist views I either argue with them or in the case of old dears change the subject and make some effort to avoid those people in future.

I have probably some friends who have probably voted tory but tbh it is not that different to voting (new) Labour. I can (just about) cope with that though will tell them they are fools. I have no friends nor have I met anyone with children in a fee-paying school as yet so cannot be sure what I would do. Though I think I am essentially a pragmatist so would probably still forget to send them xmas cards.

Friendship changes as you get older and have a family - the way I socialise is different and more superficial in a way. I need to be able to function as a parent and not embarrass my children too much so wear my heart on my sleeve less nowadays. I will make a stand on issues I take v seriously racism, sexism etc.

Bigmouth - I don't think all lefties are intolerant, hate generalising about any group. Just reading this thread, realise that all the people who have said they could never be friends with a Tory or anyone who chooses private education have stated they are from the Left. No comments from Tories or PE folk saying similar about Labour or state school folk.

I dont think I can be friends with someone whos ideas on life society and politics differ so much from my own. soemthing so fundamental is difficult to get over

I find it harder as I get older. I would never have been friends with someone who was racist that was always a no no but I used to have friends with very different views to myself and it was fine.

Now I can tolerate people with differing views but I find them incredibly boring. When you are younger you usually make friends with people who have a similar outlook on life as yourself. Once you have children it takes a while to get to know someone properly you often make friends on a superficial level and later you often find that other than children there is no common ground.

I have a friend who is very nice but has totally different opinions on things to me. When we meet up I disagree inwardly with everything she says and there is no common ground but she is kind hearted so I would feel mean to stop seeing her.

Amen Fellation for that jolly good dollop of common sense (re: life is not fair and we are all created equally, just some more equal than others)!

scanty - I noticed the same. It's really rather childish.

Excellent post fellatio and it doesn't at all come across as if you're saying that all WC people are feckless losers.

Scanty - I'm a private educating Tory (and proud of it) - if I were to say I could never be friends with a Labour / Leftie, I would have to disown most of my family and old school friends and give up my job (in a state school)

Perhaps Tories are more tolerant of other people's misguided views? (chortle)

smallwhitecat - I think you are spot on there - people on the left seem to think that anyone even remotely right of centre are hell-bent on making poor people's lives more miserable just to boost our own sense of superiority, and just for the hell of it. It never occurs to them that we just differ on what is the best route to the same destination! I'm a bit fed up with this 'nasty party' label - the gap betwwen rich and poor in this country grew under 13 years of new labour, but of course they are all nice and cuddly and kind, aren't they?

Sorry, don't have time to address the other points now (dinner) but will come back later this evening.

And yes, GF it was the latter.