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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

434 replies

Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:50

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

OP posts:
theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:06

no appletrees. if the teacher said 'bless you', they wouldn't be asking the child to say it would they?

and no i would not force my child to say 'happy christmas'.

i do however have no problems with my child hearing the story of the nativity, and think it is quite a nice story, so would happily go and watch her in a nativity play.

people who are non-religious and indigenous to britain may seem to target christianity for their anger. this is purely because it is what has been rammed down their throats since primary school. by people who hold your views. you have answered your own question really. but really, it is not just your god. some religions are much more tolerant and acceptable. to me. zen buddhism for example.

Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:19

Grace is ramming down throats?

You wouldn't force your child, but would you write to the head about her making Christmas cards that say "Happy Christmas"? Seriously?

Entirely inconsistent not to object to nativity play. It's only because it's nice and pretty and sweet and they really really would be left out if they didn't do it.

The Church of England is incredibly tolerant and embracing. Britain is incredibly tolerant and embracing of other religions. Even the word "tolerant" doesn't apply, as if it's under sufferance. It's not even that. It's just welcoming. It's more like a values thing: in the sense that Muslim and Christian values walk the same road, almost parallel roads, in the pillars of their faith. So much in common, that is looked for, rather than the differences.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 30/09/2010 23:22

That's maybe the point. Embracing of other religions, but not of 'unbelievers'.

OP posts:
Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:24

Rosie: it's true that our church school accepted families of other faiths above people of none at all.

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:30

no apples. if you didn't get it the first time. the nativity can be seen as a STORY. A STORY.

praying directly to a 'god' or 'lord' implies that he is real. two completely different instances. not analagous at all.

making christmas cards. no problem. i don't mind her making robots out of cereal packets, or making th star of david out of spaghetti if she likes.

saying thankyou to the LORD though is not acceptable to me. as a parent. therefore it should not be expected. in a non-denom school. in a secular society.

and i am still to see any evidence that those stats are in any way legitimate

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:33

i can't see why a 'non'believer' would want to send their children to your faith school anyway, unless they are complee hypocrites.

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:34

theslumbertaker - they are from the 2001 census.

barnsleybelle · 30/09/2010 23:34

But it's not going to be taught as a story is it ? Which is the whole point really.

Acting out little red riding hood will be taught as a story, but the nativity won't.

If the school plans a nativity then in school they will be taught it as religion. you may well sit in the audience and beam with pride but it's hyprocrisy to have your child involved.

Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:35

No.. the nativity is the story of Jesus being born, and in preparing for it the children will not be told, this is just a fairy story. It's "this is what Christmas is about". Implying that it is real.

Making Christmas cards that say Happy Christmas is ok, but not "forcing" a child to say Happy Christmas? This is going to be complicated..

Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:36

Basically there are a few nice bits you are ok with, which, surprise surprise, centre around Christmas.

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:37

lily that was almost ten years ago???

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:37

details here - scroll down.

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:37

It's really not going to have changed that dramatically in 10 years. 30 years maybe.

Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:38

lots of non believers wanted to go to the church school, wanted it enough that they started going to church

Appletrees · 30/09/2010 23:39

Well that's it from me. Goodnight and God bless.

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:43

well i can only speak from my own experience. i was involved in a nativity play, much as i have also played other characters on stage that aren't concordant with my non-religious beliefs. that is about fantasy. a play is a play is a play. it is a show. a process in itself.

a prayer is a prayer is a prayer. it is a direct act of worship.

two very different things.

and no. i would not force my child to say happy christmas or make christmas cards. ffs.

if it was up to me, none of it would be part of my dd's life at all.

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:45

well apples, those non-believers are hypocrites. as i would be, if i refused to send my kids to a faith school, yet put up with 'grace' at the dinner table in a secular state school

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:46

It's pretty easy to explain to a child though; you say "Some people believe in God. I don't, and it's up to you if you do. If you want to say the prayer, say it, if you don't, you don't have to, or you can think of the farmers who made the food if you prefer."

Most kids could grasp that I think. There's plenty of harder things to explain to kids.

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:48

People really are getting so steamed about this. A prayer isn't about words anyway, it's the thought behind them. We always say grace before Sunday lunch, usually my 4 year old says it and he just says "Thank you for our food, Amen". No mention of God at all, but in our case that's the implication. Equally, plenty of people utter a 'prayer' many times a day - how many times have you heard people say "GOd Almighty", "Jesus Christ" etc etc. If you're bothered about your kid 'saying a prayer' then just tell them to think of something else.

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:49

i would disagree lily. 10 years is a long time. you can't bandy about 10 year old stats like that.

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:50

Like it or not, they're the only stats there are, they are the most up to date stats. You can't possibly claim that the majority of British people are atheists when the most up to date stat states that 71% consider themselves Christian.

barnsleybelle · 30/09/2010 23:51

But it won't be taught as a play in school will it ? You can't really get round that can you. You can't pick out the nice bits such as christmas and nativity and ignore the rest. I would have respect if you blanketed it all, but you don't.

I have my own beliefs but my children attend a christian school and learn about all faiths too. I want them to get a rounded education and make their own educated opinions and not have my own feelings "rammed down their throats ", which is equally as wrong.

LilyBolero · 30/09/2010 23:54

What's more, there is a basic difference, which is, whether or not you are Christian, there is pretty conclusive evidence that Jesus (main character in the nativity) existed, (no proof as to whether he was the Son of God, but is almost certainly a genuine historical character), I'm yet to see any evidence for the existence of Little Red Riding Hood....

theslumbertaker · 30/09/2010 23:54

oh ffs. that is the whole point lily. why should a non-believer's child have to 'opt-out' of saying thanks to god? as though that makes them different.

surely, if everybody had a silent moment of general thanks, ie. thanks for the food we are about to receive, each child could give thanks to who ever the f**k they wanted to???

barnsleybelle · 30/09/2010 23:59

Oh Slumber, your references to foul language have lost you any shred of credibility you may have had.

Can I ask why it is your child should automatically have to have the same opinion and belief system as you ? Arn't they a person in their own right ?

It's not like school are suggesting something unlawful or hurtful to others. Are you so concerned that your child may have an opinion and belief system that's all their own ?

Do you not have friends/work colleagues who believe ? Does it make then henious or unpleasant to be around ?

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