to think this is a terrible reason to let a child be cold??!

[lisad123isgoingcrazy]

DD2 went to preschool today and they pulled me aside at end and said they had noticed a rash on DD2 arm. I explained its birth mark (mollted one, quite large) but it normally only really shows when cold.
Her reply was "yes well DD2 chose not to wear her coat outside so she might have been cold"!

she chose! shes 3!! make her wear it. She also "chose" not to wear her shoes either so came home with wet socks in her bag.

They had earlier changed her into a short sleeved tshirt as she'd got wet

AIBU? Is this standard practice now??

I don't hold any strong religious beliefs and ds does not go to a religious school. I dont have any real issues either way.

However, you are teaching her that school activities are optional if you don't like them. You are so teaching her that teachers do not always know what is right.

I'm not supposing it has anything to do with her coat and shoes but I fear you may encounter this a lot.

I also know a woman who objects to her child being made to wear shoes. Presumably teachers should be keeping some sort of list.

Under EYFS you can't stop a child from going outside if they want,they have to have free flow access to outdoor play.

To be honest coats aren't always going to be easy to monitor with several children to care for. If it was me I'd dress said child in a chunky jumper/cardigan.

Op re your question about where to send your child well entirely up to you but if you send your child to any educational establishment you have to abide by some rules you don't like,we all do. Being JW doesn't entitle you to preferential treatment.

I have to send my child to the local church school,there is no other choice so we have to put up and shut up with the schools rules as we have sent our child there. Sorry but I think you should expect to have to do the same,why should it be any different for you?

Re the Xmas thing what exactly are you afraid of? Why can't your child stay for the last Xmas week?Celebrating is part of learning. I don't agree with a lot of things in several religions but I can't pick and choose what they learn/celebrate. Why should you be any different?

My DD attends a Montessori nursery. Although their ethos is to allow the child to choose for themselves as much as possible, there are limits to this. In summer no child was allowed outside without suncream and a hat. Similarly when it is raining, the child has a choice - put on coat and boots or not go outside.

"Under EYFS you can't stop a child from going outside if they want,they have to have free flow access to outdoor play."

Sorry but if the teachers are not allowed to make sure that the children are dresses adequately for the weather this rule is stupid. If a parent was to let their child outside n the rain (even in a mild day) without shoes, proper clothes they would be certanly judged, possibly accused of neglect, why should it be different in a pre school setting?

YANBU - I'd be furious.

Aaargh! The OP has already explained that she takes her kids out for the last week before Xmas, specifically to avoid their non-participation being a problem for the school.

And also that she is perfectly happy for her children to learn about Christmas but (as I understand it) her religion requires it not to actually be celebrated.

Not sure what she could do actually.

I went to a CofE primary school - of the kind where it's the only option locally - they had respect for the beliefs of Muslims, Hindus, atheists & JWs whose children attended, why can't you?

(sorry that was to MilaMae not the last poster)

Under EYFS I suspect, not having time to look it up, that access to outside play is stated as important (for those places that have limited access to the outdoors) and so is encouraging children to make decisions for themselves, but EYFS sections about a safe and healthy child would suggest shoe wearing for outside play or coat-wearing when it got really cold take precedence over a 3yr old wanting to assert their independence. Can just picture filling in the accident sheet with 'hypothermia' at the top!

Just sounds like the OP's nursery were lax or a bit wimpy about asserting that her dd needed to wear her shoes and coat. Although at the thought of coaxing my intractable 4 yr old, I might think sod it, get cold!

thank you for the supportive messgaes. As I have explained I have choosen to be part of this religion and intend to stick to my beliefs rather than compromise that to please others. I always tell my children to do as they are told by the teacher but yes your right im teaching them teachers are always right, but then i teach them that adults arent always right, and its the truth.

YANBU. I asked a nursery nurse at my DD's private nursery to remind her that her gloves were in her pocket last winter. She replied that it was up to the children what they wore outside. As DD was only three, I firmly made my point that no, it should not be up to young children to decide. Just make sure that you ask them to make sure that she is properly dressed - not that you should have to, of course.

Being honest - sod EYFS and free choice. When I'm in nursery, if you haven't got your coat on AND done up (I'll help/intercept you at the door to make sure it's done) - you ain't going out matey. You have the choice - the choice is you come out dressed so you're not going to be turning into an ice cube, or you're choosing that you want to play inside. In the summer - you get to choose if you want your jumper/cardy/coat on or what not - when it's chuffing freezing and me as the hardened northerner is reaching for the gloves - nope.

It may be the educational equivalent of heresy - but bollocks, burn me at the stake for it.

EYFS does not mean the utter absence of boundaries and letting anarchy reign. Takes a bit of guts to stand up to the more yoghurt-knitty LEA advisors but I go around enough schools to know that some are much more formal than others - yet still come out of Ofsteds unscathed and are still meeting the guidelines - without letting kids run riot doing just what they feel like.

well said, emptyshell!

It's September folks not December,don't think any 3 year old is going to get hypothermia for dodging outside without a coat-bit of perspective please.

I don't think this issue re JW is about respect. I think the op is wrong to take her children out of school for a week before Christmas.Other parents aren't allowed to pull their kids out of school for a week willy nilly. I hate my kids having to endure listening to the Easter story but have to poke up with it. Can just imagine the reaction if I tried to pull them out for the entire week before Easter.

If the OP objects so much about the nurseries handling of Xmas her child shouldn't be there.The op is dumping her religious beliefs onto the nursery and leaving them to deal with the fall out.

As I said before all parents have to put up with things that are taught at school,everybody should have the same rights,being JW doesn't give the op any more rights than anybody else.

If you felt strongly enough about Easter I sure wouldnt be complaining about you taking children out.I dont see why its a problem for you, by me taking them out it saves the staff an terrible amount of stress, of what to do with my child while christmas overtakes every class.

I am not dumping my religious beliefs on anyone, I have said Im happy to go in and help them or even to take her out.
What sort of fall out would the nursery suffer from? Heaven forbid someone else have a difference of opinion and teach their children about their religion, whats that word, diversity??!

Hmmm diversity,not sure you can preach really. I let my kids learn and experience other religions,you pull your kids out.

A lot of parents about 80% I'd say at our school aren't religious and I know the Easter story is a bugbear with many.If we all pulled our kids out it would be unmanageable. Don't really like my kids learning about fasting in the name of religion either but I tolerate that.I also tolerate the anti science message Christianity is fond of pushing out.

I just make up for it at home and explain what our views are and that there are many religions with different views and beliefs and ask the dc to come to their own conclusions.Why can't you do the same and respect the way your nursery handles things?

I have said Im happy for them to learn about other religions, just not join in the celebrations. Would you think it acceptable to make every child fast because a high proportion of the school were doing it? Its parental choice and the wholepart of equal oppertunities is that every child should have access to an education no matter what their background, NOT every child should do the same.
I do of course talk to my children about others beliefs systems and why they teach monkey to man and why some believe in god and others nature.

"Under EYFS you can't stop a child from going outside if they want,they have to have free flow access to outdoor play."

Do you have any kind reference for that, MilaMae?

Are you seriously suggesting that doors/passages to outdoor plays area should be open at all times, in all weathers, for all ages?

No of course not love but they are supposed to be allowed to have free access(ie they can go out out freely wether it be opening a door or not) to outdoor play which they do at my dc's "outstanding" pre-school and my dc's "outstanding" school.

To be frank with several children going in and out through an open door or not most rooms will be cold so I would have thought thick jumpers would solve any problems.

In my dd's rec class and pre-school the doors are open most of the time so I just layer her up,it's not rocket science and in September nobody is going to be getting hypothermia.

Op most schools teach RE through festivals so how is your child learning a full balanced curriculum if you take the festivals away?

Milamae
For all your talk about diversity and respect, you are certainly not treating LisaD with much respect. Why does she have to justify her choice in religion to you, and the way she brings up her DC?

I do not think that JW get preferential treatment. When I was in school we all felt sorry for the little boy who was not allowed to celebrate Christmas, or make Christmas tree decorations. There was certainly not the feeling that he was getting something extra.

Now, as an adult, I can see why it may be preferable to take a child out of school in the last week before Christmas as it is certainly no fun if he has to be excluded from many activities, and very difficult for the teachers as well.

I would feel the same about a Muslim family taking their child out of school.

YANBU I'd go mental. My DD has poor circulation so really feels the cold gets blue lips and hands when she's very cold (freaks people out alot).

Luckily the nursery that DD (3) goes too insists that no child goes out in the cold unless they have a coat and prefably boots and hat/gloves etc on too. Similar in summer they can not go out without a sunhat on.

I wouldn't have a problem with the coat thing actually - I think 3 probably is old enough to decide whether or not they need a coat. You can't really force a 3 year old to put a coat on anyway, and is it worth the aggravation of trying? If they get outside and realise it is too cold after all, they'll ask for their coat, won't they?

Sorry but the op does get preferential treatment, what other family is allowed to take their dc out of school for a week when they oppose the curriculum?

The op certainly doesn't have to justify her choice of religion to me but instead when speaking about diversity (a word she brought up) as actually pulling her kids out of school isn't acting in the name of diversity and is something she should justify when other parents aren't allowed to do the same.

Also the op asked a question re the nuseries handling of her child and Xmas and I'm answering that I think she is being unreasonable. If the op doesn't like the answers don't ask the question.

I think everyone is making the mistake of thinking that Christmas has something to do with religion.

who said im allowed to take my children out of school? I said I take them out, I didnt say the school agree to it!

No matter what I say to you Milamae, you will still see it another way. diversity is difference, not doing the same and following like sheep. You clearly have an issue with my choices, that your opnion.

TBH Im pretty sure any parent is allowed to remove their child from classes they dont agree with, hence why schools send letters home to ask/tell about sex ed classes.