to have no idea what to do with my baby

[imissredwine]

...
when she's awake?

oh yes netmums is a good idea, as is signing up to the local section on here.

aloud ALOUD! I, of course, meant allowed!

Get a magazine - something the old you was interested in - and read it aloud. Baby will be happy and you'll have something interesting going on in your head. Pretend she's a friend and have conversations "Look, it says here ..... isn't that ridiculous? I mean just look at the picture" etc. Might help.

Good luck.

(I remember desperately wanting dd to just walk and talk..... huh!)

imissredwine i just wanted to add that i think the advice about talking to friends/husband about this would really help. My oldest friend told me last week that she had suffered from pnd after the birth of her first child for 2 years but hadn't wanted to tell anyone because she thought it meant she was a bad mum. She says she now sees that this silence was in itself part of the problem and can see how wrong she was not to talk about how she was feeling. For my part I was really upset that I hadn't realised what she was going through as I would give anything to help her. Reading your posts has made me want to rush round your house to give you a hug and make you tea - followed by a long session of discussing the latest "when I was a bad mum" anecdotes - of which I have many - over a couple of bottles of red wine. If you reach out to people I'm sure they will help. Wishing you all the very best.

I talked/sang to DD lots.
And she just loved watching me relax & read books when she was very young

Stangirl, I have (finally) spoken to husband about the terrible thoughts in my head and he was really sympathetic and supportive. We chatted through some of it but it's still there. Haven't spoken to friends but am trying to pluck up the courage to.

As for toddler groups... when I see mums out and about with their prams and designer babies I want to punch them. I avoid going anywhere where there are a surplus of mums. Went for coffee the other morning and the place was full of them... I couldnt bear it. did the anxiety thing and left

I'm getting help, and will consider pills if talking doesnt work, I just dont want to grab for them straight away.

Talking/ singing to her... I cant. I just cant. I feel stupid. I dont feel the 'mum' thing. I see other people cooing over her and chatting away and feel helpless and wish i could do that too.

really worried about how im going to cope with husband back at work. just need to crack on with iti know

((((HUGS))) there isn't any more advice I can give you that anyone else hasn't said already - but I would say TRY a playgroup, I actually help to run one, and I was rather put off at first: but two boys on (one is five, the other is three)I have come to realise that ALL mums struggle, it's just some people are better at looking cool than others! Loads of people say to me, 'oh, you're so nice, I never hear you shout or swear at your kids' etc, and I think, 'thank God for the thick walls on these old houses' !! One day a time will come when you will change your name on here to 'idrinkcopiousamountsofredwine'. Until then, keep on pedalling, and know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. WE ARE HERE. XXXXXXXX

imissredwine - another here who felt exactly the same way..

I studiously avoided anything 'mummy' - I hated going to the supermarket around after school time because I knew other mums (with older children) would try to (gasp) talk to me in (gasp) a sympathetic manner..

I'm the complete opposite now - I'm a baby monster - I'm the woman who's leaning into the prams of strangers and cooing at screaming babies! I've realised that no one cares if a tiny baby is screaming - and that anyone who does care has something seriously wrong with them..

One thing that I did was take a camera out with me for walks (along with the baby).. If I thought about it I would set myself a little assignment (that never really got finished) like photographing numbers or letters, or churches or street signs etc..

I don't think I had PND but my problem was the transition from being just plain old me to being a mother. I needed the time to adjust and grow into really being a parent, really feeling like a parent.. dragging a camera around made me feel like I was still me - that I was an important, creative person still..

Can you get some time to do something you used to do? Some good hard exercise can make you feel better and help you sleep better.

The adjustment is huge I found - I lost my identity and had to find a new one. You will find many other women like yourself, at toddler groups, who feel like an imposter, are craving adult conversation. When you feel ready, give it a try.

Also remember it won't always be this way. Babies grow up and it will get easier (and more interesting)

Can you get some time to do something you used to do? Some good hard exercise can make you feel better and help you sleep better.

The adjustment is huge I found - I lost my identity and had to find a new one. You will find many other women like yourself, at toddler groups, who feel like an imposter, are craving adult conversation. When you feel ready, give it a try.

Also remember it won't always be this way. Babies grow up and it will get easier (and more interesting)

I echo all the advice on here. What I wanted to say was about the talking to her/cooing type stuff.

I really found this difficult with ds1. Think about when you're at home -do you ever talk to yourself/sing along to the radio/dance to music/whistle? It's really the same as that. Remember no one can see you at home. Put the radio on so you don't feel like your voice is echoing round the house.

I started with dancing around with him and singing along to my favourite cds with him and then read him books.

Gradually moved on to stuff like having a little routine of blowing on his tummy and saying 'one leg, two leg' type nonsense when I was changing his nappy. Then moved onto full blown running commentary about everything I was doing and my crowning moment was calling him his silly nickname 'Mr Binky' in public-nobody bats an eyelid.
Baby signing classes could start to break down your self conciousness.

I had a self imposed routine along the lines of something each day that didn't rely on other people-change library books/ aqua fit with creche/ toddler +baby swim hour/supermarket. Meeting people for coffee or whatever was an added bonus.

I also watched a lot of box set dvds cos I felt that simply feeding the baby for hours on end was quite dull too!

Hi wine,
I've never posted here before, but your message made me want to delurk, as I felt all the things you're talking about after the birth of DS, now 8.

To get through the day I invented all sorts of things to do and errands - it was the long draggy emptiness of each day that I couldn't face. Like I would walk for miles to buy something from a particular shop on the other side of town (god, this isn't sounding very cheering or mega interesting is it? hope you get the picture)

I think that going back to work would have made a big difference for me, there would have been structure and an end to the endless days...plus baby-free time.

Looking back I wish I'd taken anti-ds, but I saw that as compounding my total failure, so resisted it with grim determination. I did get some counselling, which was a good thing because it meant some baby-free time once a week, and I got stuck into some interesting stuff about my relationship with my mum, but then the counsellor got preg and that was that

You will get the old you back, I promise, once this evil depression has lifted, sending big hugs

imissredwine I know how you feel about feeling silly singing and stuff. I forced myself to go to baby massage with DD and I remember thinking that all the other mums seemed so natural interacting with their babies and it felt so forced for me.
It helped me to get out of the house and go to toddler groups - even though it was the last thing I felt like doing I always felt better for it - but it might not help you.
What sort of things did you enjoy doing on your maternity leave? Could they be adapted to be done with baby?

maternity leave? Didn't get any unfortunately. Worked right up to the event.

Finished work Friday, surprise weekend present of early baby.

husband at work now. It's been an hour and a half! No drama so far... Fuck this is hard work, l;adies

But again, thanks all for suggestions

It is hard work, isn't it?

I didn't have PND, but I did feel a lot of the things you are. I agree with what everyone's been saying about adjusting to motherhood and redefining yourself - I think we lose ourselves for a while on the way.

Four children on, I can say with confidence that it doesn't stop being hard work! And there will probably always be days when you think, "What have I got myself into? Aaaghh! This is forever!" BUT those will just be days, over quickly and back to normality - not like the seemingly-endless grey you're living in at the moment. :(

Hope you have a good night. Hang on in there... the better days are on their way!

These thoughts are quite common, I know how you feel. The biggest thing for me has been introducing myself to every new mum I meet. It's had a really good success rate for finding friends! I found another mum in the baby clinic only last week who I've been seeing. I no longer have any embarrassment in talking to ANYONE with a baby.

Hi, I feel I understand what you are going through. My DD is 7 months, I enjoyed her at first but started to enjoy her less and less until at about 6 months I felt as if I was just dragging myself through the day with her. My DP works away and it felt utterly soul destroying facing endless days and nights without any company. I felt unable to interact with DD, longed to go back to work and constantly was filled with guilt at my inability to be a 'good enough' mother. I have family locally and ended up basically living with them because I couldn't face having DD on my own.

I approached my doctor after being encouraged by my mum who could see I wasn't at all right. I am now taking sertraline (form a prozac that is ok to take whilst BF). I've only been taking it for two weeks but already I feel as if the light is coming back on in my life and I am finding it easier and more fun to look after DD.

DD is also getting more independant which makes thing easier. I personally go to lots of baby things because firstly it allows me to spend time talking to adults - or just sitting in silence with adults sometimes - and also because it is fun and stimulating for DD which I hope makes up for the times when I am very low and finding it difficult to interact with her.

Do consider the AD, they are making a huge difference to me and allowing me to enjoy my daughter instead of struggling through each day feeling desperately bored, unhappy and guilty.

Sorry if my advice about just doing whatever you want to do but taking the baby sounded crap - a subsequent poster said it never made sense to her when people said that - but I dont mean your daily routine as such, its more a case of a random stranger (me) giving you "permission" to just do it anyway.

Not that you need it - but maybe you do?

This is sort of separate from the PND thing - I know the PND makes it difficult for you to do just that - but even if you dont end up doing it, try and get in the mindset by thinking, "how could I do that with a baby? Would I bring a sling? Would I time it with their nap?" and try and strategise scenarios in your head. It makes you feel freer when you do finally achieve these outings and events with baby in tow.

I have had my legs waxed with a 2 and a half year old and a 6 month old in the room with me. It wasn't my idea, the salon lady said "just bring them" when she couldn't accomodate my child-free time and I said "oh no you have no idea" and she said "there's no one else here, what's the worst thing that could happen"?

Somehow it worked out fine. I have had my eyebrows threaded whilst my 11 month old shrieked so loudly the walls of Fenwick nearly fell. How was I to know she was going to object? Nobody died (though people wished I was dead, probably)

Small steps though and I appreciate that its easy to say do it. Just think about it for now. Allow yourself to imagine walking round somewhere or doing something or other even if its when you are dropping off to sleep at night...just visualise it if you can.

I know that trapped feeling. I had it. I didn't have PND, or if I did, it was short lived and mild, but I had that depressed, trapped feeling of the walls closing in on me yet not having the motivation to get out (or, some days, get dressed). You feel worse for it somehow, its a hard cycle to break.

The babies get to an age (around 7 months or so can't remember) where you almost have to go out each day or it can just go a bit wrong! Even to this day, our one day at home where nobody is at preschool or anything like that, on days where I decide we dont need to go out etc, god it drags and I'm talking through gritted teeth to my son by 1pm most the time.

You just have to get out, even if its for an hour in the morning. Do you drink coffee? Even if you just go to a coffee place, order a coffee in a takeaway cup, and sit at a table to drink it for as long as you dare, allowing yourself to leave with it and drink it in the car/way home if things go wrong.

Sorry it all sounds trite really whatever advice but if one little part is helpful then I'm glad.

imiss - I felt quite similar to you when DS was little, I was depressed and it took me until he was almost 8 months to really realise and start taking some drugs, and I also had some counselling. I really cannot recommend the ADs enough, they changed my life almost overnight and I could think clearly instead of everything being a reactive panic.

With you feeling self-conscious about talking and singing to your baby, could you maybe start with a CD of some lullabys and nursery rhymes and sing along with those? Once you get going then you might feel more confident about it.
I used to like dancing with DS, and I still do the difference being I don't have to carry him these days! He loved being whirled round and lifted up and down.

The other thing to say is, don't feel that you must spend every waking moment doing something with your baby. Put them down on the floor/playmat or whatever, if they are happy in their cot or basket then leave them for 5 minutes. Take some time during the day to do things for yourself, whether that is jobs round the house, reading a book, just putting your feet up with a cup of tea.

Oh SP that was me - I see what you meant now - more 'how can I do life with my baby' rather than 'get on with it with a baby' - noone explained it like that to me. It makes more sense the way you've explained it. It's what I do now TBH. I can go here, there as baby will sleep in car/eat when I get there.
Routine made my life have some meaning and purpose - also the unbearable days became easier knowing baby will go to bed in 2 hours - when I can have a cup of tea/nervous breakdown/whatever I want!!

Yep I agree with that - because even if you feel guilty or it feels wrong, when you have subsequent children, they generally (unless you are a real babywearer) spend a lot more time fitting in with you than PFB's (first children).

On the topic of 2nd child syndrome, I joke with my husband that my daughter (who is about a year old) shits 3 times a day simply because if she didn't, I wouldn't get round to changing her nappy. She has to squeeze small smelly ones out at equal intervals or her nappy would end up the size of a UFO...

Sorry that last post was to Alibaba but Pinkie I'm glad I clarified because it does just sound trite otherwise doesn't it.

SP that is so true, you have to work out a plan - which when you are in fog of PND seems insurmountable and the slightest doubt or worry can make you think 'oh I can't possibly do that, so you do nothing'.
I was lucky I think in that my PND didn't really kick in badly until DS was about 5 months old, so by the time I felt really low I had already conquered various 'obstacles' and was able to chivvy myself along a bit by thinking 'come on, you've done this loads of times before'.

It is hard though, becoming a parent. It is a total alteration of lifestyle, of priorities and of expectations and I think we all place a lot of pressure on ourselves to adapt immediately and be amazing at it. Not easy.

SP - I'm one of three and can remember when my youngest brother was a baby and toddler, so I know from seeing it that my Mum didn't spend hours every day down on the floor playing with him and all the rest of it. She had two other kids and a house to run, and he fitted in around what was going on. When he was about 6/7 months he used to have his tea sitting in his buggy at the leisure centre while I was having my swimming lesson, etc etc - and he's not suffered. He's a sociable and extremely clever man with a degree from Cambridge and a good job in the city.
It was such a help, remembering his babyhood, because lots of things that I would have thought 'OMG this can't be normal', I knew were perfectly normal! :)

I also think the manufacturers of car seats and pushchairs and all that gubbins design it with the express intent to make your life extra difficult

I remember the first time I conquered an outing where I used the adaptor thingies for the maxi cosi carseat thing and took my son out using that instead of the full big pram. I felt inconquerable

And it was only to Wilkin & Son's jam factory for a browse around the gift shop and a toasted teacake

I've thought of another tip - get up and out. Dont hang around in the morning. So get up, have your shower (somehow - put him in the car seat watching you if you have to!), get dressed, put makeup on if you were a makeup girl before having kids (but if not, no need to start now). Basic makeup. God it makes a difference to how you feel if that's what you used to do before you had kids (not suggesting anyone who goes barefaced shouldn't though)

Have breakfast, prepare bottles if you bottlefeed, pack a bag (no, you dont need that much, a nappy and a pack of wipes, milk if you botttlefeed, a dummy if you use one). Its fun and empowering to play roulette by going out with only one nappy. What's the worst thing that can happen? You buy one somewhere. But you might not be up to roulette yet so I wont freak you out.

Get in the car / on the bus / on foot and do something. Prolong the outing if you are up to it, take your time, get distracted if you want, stop and smell the roses if you can.

When you have done that outing, give yourself permission to be "in for the day".

Even to this day, except on a Friday, I'm generally "in for the day" by half 3. In the early days it would sometimes be by lunchtime. Its the key to the way I structure my days, when my son started preschool I chose morning sessions. Its what we've always done. If you get up and out, and get things "out the way", you really feel better. And if you are still finding the getting out thing hard, coming home really feels good. The sooner you go out, the sooner you come home.

Worked for me.