to be surprised that so many people do not know their times tables

[moffat]

I am on a Primary PGCE course and was very surprised in a Maths session when loads of students (ie trainee teachers) said that they didn't know all their times tables. Not being judgemental but I suppose with people using calculators/spreadsheets so much there is no need to memorise them all. Just wondered whether this was the norm.

My two are/were at state primary. They have/had weekly tables tests from yr2 to yr5. It is expected that they will know them instantly, and they do.

yes we used to do country dancing in primary school. Very good fun it was too.

Yes-country dancing-it was fun!

I always got taught times tables by repeated addition, however I can do all of them instantly. That is because I have a very good feel for maths and numbers (wish the same could be said of language skills!) so I never found it difficult to learn. I can do up to 15x15 with little problem. I'm a bit shaky on 13 and 14 but can answer within a couple of seconds. The others I can do instantly. I can understand how it could be very difficult for anyone without a good feel for numbers who was taught like I was though.

The advent of Kumon should tell eductionalists everything they need to know about what parents really want. Of course, educationalists dont really want to know what parents want.

Kumon is basically a copy of how basic maths is taught in Japan (and now China). We wonder why we have failed to keep up with them in engineering and mathematical applications to business.

Exactly right. And why should those parents who can afford it, have to pay extra to get Kumon to teach their children the basics? This is on top of the taxes they have already paid for the promised "education, education, education". Seems like the public is being robbed, and those who can't afford Kumon are getting screwed even more.

God I hate grid multiplication. All those zeroes! So easy to miss one and make a mistake. I much prefer lattice multiplication.

Kumon is another issue. I belive they and their like rely on parents guilt factor. Many parents believe their children need extra and will pay for it often at great sacrifice when their child is doing fine. How effective it is is up for debate. See the many other threads where parents describe their bad experiences. I think we mean the same thing gifarre. When I say gris I mean the one without the zeros where you add diagonally.
We do MANY things differently to 50 years ago. Those of you who work, was your job done the same way 50 years ago? Medicene has moved on, technology has moved on and so has education. A lot of the changes are based on careful research. Just because parents want things done how they did them doesn't mean that is correct.

Have a look at the results though. New doesn't necessarily mean better.

Agree with Riven. Why don't the parents help their own children with maths? Why pay for it?

because lots of them can't

if you rely on the parents many children fail

if many children fail everyone suffers

it is happening and has been happening for some time

I send my newly 6 year old DD to Kumon to learn her number bonds. She's been adding 1,2 and 3 to numbers up to 120 and tonight she did 80 sums in 6 minutes. She says in two months she's gone from feeling like she's the bottom of her class in maths to feeling like she's the top. She also wants very badly to carry on with her mathswork even when the teacher stops the class. I noticed that I could not get her attention myself whilst she was doing her Kumon this evening because she was so engrossed in it.
In short, she will soon be drilling her times tables in Kumon.
I know that not everyone can afford Kumon, but I can honestly say it's the best 50 quid a month I have spent. I realise now there IS no such thing as being good at numbers. It;s all about practice and drilling of number bonds and tables. Your colleagues need to appreciate this and gen up themselves before they teach our kids.

FWIW, I think ALL primary schools should adopt the Kumon approach to drilling number bonds as it's the only way to learn them. So simple.

I pay for Kumon but also spend a lot of time helping my DD with her school related maths, spelling and reading btw.

because if something works for my child then it must work for everyone

i may try kumon for my son, he has struggled for years with maths and perhaps learning by rote is the only way he'll remember

i think he just finds it so hard to add up in his head.

i've never been able to memorise tables but just add up in head

Kumon rocks!!! My DD has gained heaps of confidence in 10 weeks and a very positive and focussed approach to learning. Best money I ever spent.

Kumon didn't do it for us.