to be surprised that so many people do not know their times tables

[moffat]

I am on a Primary PGCE course and was very surprised in a Maths session when loads of students (ie trainee teachers) said that they didn't know all their times tables. Not being judgemental but I suppose with people using calculators/spreadsheets so much there is no need to memorise them all. Just wondered whether this was the norm.

I don't know mine and still managed to get an A at GCSE (20 years ago)
Can't say it has done me any harm career or life skills wise.

They probably can't remember. I though I didn't know my TT until I started using them in school - then they all came back to me!

how can you do division without knowing times tables?

mnistooaddictiveYes I know chunking. Watched it taught to a group of Y5/6s.
The more able wasted ages on it when they could have done things quicker the old fashioned way( which the teacher refused to teach).
It was quite impressive for the less able but I still don't believe it should be a substitute for learning tables.

I can do division, multiplication etc. Just can't recite my tables the way we were taught at school apart from the dead easy ones.

My maths is shockingly bad. I simply had no interest in it at school and saw it as a waste of energy that I could be spending on English (which I did). Thankfully, being a writer, I've never been in a situation where I've had to own up to the fact that I don't know them.

We were never taught them but I'm pretty capable at maths so if for example you said six sevens at me I could still tell you very quickly.
As mnis says if you're good at maths its easy really and yes I would do 6x6+6 as she says

(actually 7x6 is one I do know now anyway)

There is more of a push to make children learn individual times table facts (i.e. in random order) again these days, after years of only teaching them by counting on/repeated addition.

The difference is that they aren't just done by chanting, which can be really hard for some children, who simply don't learn well by auditory rote memory like chanting. There are lots of multisensory or nonverbal ways to learn times tables that appeal to people with other learning styles, and schools nowadays are better at recognising that.

i worked in a comprehensive secondary school and was surprised how many kids did not know their tables. they had them printed in their organisers but i discoouraged them from using this as to me it was like cheating and not learning.

i would start them at a low point in the table and get them to keep going e.g. 2 x 4 is 8 etc.

I think the more you memorise them the more they stick. The teacher used to play multiplication bingo in Y8 which was an excellent idea.

My mum used to make me recite them in the car when I felt car sick. I used to feel car sick a lot so I know them really well ha ha!!!

I am good with numbers but having my times table burnt into my brain makes numbers even easier
When I was at school there was a chart of the wall with everybody's name and numbers one to twelve. When we mastered the timetables we got a coloured star in the box and finally got a gold star when we had done everyone upto 12.

I really dislike the way my dc's were taught their times tables and they are unable to say 8 8s are 64 because they were taught 8, 16, 24 etc rather that 8x1 is 1. When asked they have to work their way through the times table IYSWIM.
As for long division my DS got a level 8 for end of KS3 and still can't do long division He has just started GCSE and his teacher is going over it again.

We were taught them by rote at primary school (1960s) and DD's school teaches them by rote. They also have regular tables tests in years 3, 4 and 5.

When we went to look at the school when DD was three we could hear the children chanting their tables and I knew then it was the right school for us.

I'm pretty good at maths (also an accountant and did pure maths amongst other things at uni).

Don't know my times tables. We were taught them and had to do regular tests at primary school and I was rubbish at remembering. I need an interesting way to commit things to memory and learning by rote just doesn't work for my brain!

sorry that should be 8x1 is 8

I did times tables but I can't remember them now. But I can multiply fine but not by memory.

My mum who's in her 70's is of the non calulculator gen. and she dosen't know her tables from memory but her maths is great. Perhaps it's a calculator thing, like word processing is to knowing how to spell?

I know my times tables and I am going through the process of getting DS1(9yrs) to learn them. We are doing the chanting method but (old school), my God, it is a slow demoralising process. I can see how, if a child doesn't memorize them at school and have parents who are very busy that they just get overlooked.

I know the 2s, 5s and 9s and do perfectly fine.

My mother was desperate for me to know them all by heart but I couldn't be arsed, told her I would never need to know them all by heart, and so far, I've done okay.

"I made my boys learn them by rote the old fashioned tedious way that stays with you a lifetime."

Exactly. You absorb them, they stay with you. Even if you don't understand, at least you know 12 eights and seven fives in a flash.

These students don't know them because they weren't taught them, because it was stupidly, ridiculously, selfishly, seen as oppressive and boring.

God it's so stupid. And these people are supposed to teach the next generation, now that we've changed our minds and decided times tables aren't oppressive and boring at all, but a necessary basis for learning fractions, algebra, probability, everything.

Prents were right all along, just as we're right about homework and spelling.

In fact I reckon most teachers agree, it's just educationalists who screw things up.

After my comment earlier I should also point out that as an Information Analyst, I use maths daily. I also find division quite easy (although calculators have made me lazy).

It is interesting that the comments from a lot of people who use maths in their jobs are the ones that don't know their times tables off by heart.

"As for long division my DS got a level 8 for end of KS3 and still can't do long division He has just started GCSE and his teacher is going over it again."

Also familiar with me. And I'm sure your lad is a bright boy, mine is, but they've just been taught ooh, five, six, seven different methods, including the chinese method and the russian method, and fking chunking, and so on, and so on ad infinitim to self-immolation by parent who realises exactly where it's going wrong and can plot the resulting destruction of confidence and arithmetical authority in a child with utter depressing precision.

"and I am going through the process of getting DS1(9yrs) to learn them. We are doing the chanting method but (old school), my God, it is a slow demoralising process."

Yes, it is boring at that age. It should be done at four, five and six, when they absorb it like a sponge and love a bit of singy chanting and sitting on the carpet and everybody all together now.

By nine they should be applying times tables not learning them. They don't want to sit and rote learn times tables any more. They're beyond it.

RE: chunking. "The more able wasted ages on it when they could have done things quicker the old fashioned way( which the teacher refused to teach)."

yes and in my case TOLD me NOT to use or encourage this method at home (stern look)

gah

This absolutley infuriates me and am a total stickler for learning tables. Schools seem to have quietly dropped it and I always supected it was because teachers didnt like it. DSs school are just too weak on it along with long division.

Rote learning is the only way. I still remember Miss Wilbey in Year 2 teaching us and God forbid we forgot them. By Year 3 we were word perfect and that was a very mixed ability state village Primary school 35 years ago. Still remember to this day winning the school times table competition with a lightning fast response to 7 x 7. Still my favoutite multiplication.

I teach DSs with a pack of cards. Lay 2 cards down on the kitchen table and get them multiply them together. Number cards as they are but Jacks = 11, Queen = 12, King = 0.

I use times tables routinely every day all day in my work and yes I am an old git and proud of it!

Wonder if it also depends on math's tuition. For two years we had a succession of supply teachers and they all taught us matrices and nothing else. Great at that (not very useful in my life) and very little else.