For thinking that the little shits who bullied a little boy so much he hung himself should not be getting fecking counselling ??

[OldCrusty]

I've namechanged because i'm a wimp...

On sunday night a 10yr old boy hung himself, he hung himself because he'd been bullied.

He'd tried to kill himself on numerous occasions, because he was being bullied.

Because of this, his poor mother was on constant 'suicide watch' and got her neighbour to put a ladder to the window when he locked his bedroom door.

He was found hanging from his bed.

So tell me AIBU in thinking that the nasty little bastards who caused that poor boy so much pain and upset should be told YOU my child are a nasty little shit, because of you and others like you a boy suffering became so much he decided he didnt want to live anymore ??

Not given a pat on the back and 'helped' to feel 'better' ??

Must humans have the capacity for evil. We are not very highly evolved. Sorry but I've been studying genocide recently (read about 10 weighty tomes on the matter) and that is the inescapable conclusion. Most people could have been one of those bullies at 10 years old in the right circumstances. Humans are horribly flawed. It is very tragic that little boy died and his family must be in bits

What is to be done.....I despair of people generally

This thread has got me welling up. :( Why can't everyone just be nice? Why?

Hugs for Elmofan and her DS and SDTG and SpikeyCow. This kind of stuff just makes me incredibly depressed.

"also - the anti bullying stuff seems to assume that the bullies don't understand that they are hurting the victim"
Thats BS. Of course they understand maybe not to what extent thye might be harming them but kids arent stupid. They do need to be told in black and white and should face the consequences.
Child protection is a great thing but sometimes it goes too far, especially when the kids start threatening to call childline when their parents dont give them the toy they want.

I know Cupcakes it's very sad. God knows the trouble I'll get into when my boys go to secondary. But that's my duty, I don't trust anyone else to protect them, or even care properly. There have been dozens of cases where young children have topped themselves, and it's because they had no one to help them and gave up hope.

kids don't threaten to call childline because they don't get the toy they want

that is daily mail "pc gorn maaaaaaaaad" bullshit

anyone who says "child protection sometimes goes to far" has no place in an adult debate

I recommend brain training, who knows, you could be a geranium by Christmas

Adults aren't much better.

spikeycow - I applaud your approach. My dcs know I 'have their back' too, and whilst I have tried to instill a strong moral code (be kind and helpful to others etc), I've also told them to truck no messing.

It has to be that way hmc. Zero tolerance.

I agree with Greensleeves completely.

I also do believe that most children aged 10 are not fully aware of the consequences of their actions and it woudl never occur to them that they might make someone feel so bad they would want to kill themselves.

I was bullied quite badly in my first and second year of secondary school by older girls, until I started to stand up for myself. All the bullies were from either broken or foster homes or 'over-priviledged' homes. Thinking about it now, they were all very obviously very insecure.

Yet, in spite of being bullied, I am ashamed to admit that although I didn't join in actively, I did get involved in laughing at a boy in our class who was well known to smell of BO, when people would spray him with deodorant etc. I am deeply ashamed of how I behaved, these days I would tell those responsible to pack it in. At the time though, it really didn't occur to us (me at least) that it might really badly affect him. Goodness knows why, there were days I was afraid to go to school myself.

"kids don't threaten to call childline because they don't get the toy they want

that is daily mail "pc gorn maaaaaaaaad" bullshit

anyone who says "child protection sometimes goes to far" has no place in an adult debate

I recommend brain training, who knows, you could be a geranium by Christmas"

How do you know they don't GS? I have a friend in London actually who has been through this, her kids threatening to call because she wouldnt let them do something.

....and why does it have no place in adult debate. I guess you will be a stand up by christmas by all means, being as funny as you are!

Of course child protection can go too far, just as it sometimes doesn't go far enough. My friend's DS's threatened to accuse her of abuse if she didn't buy them things. Children can be ultimately selfish, especially as there is so little in the way of real consequences now.
A teacher friend of my DM was suspended as some feral little shits children accused her of touching them. She was an ex-missionary- quiet, kind, devoted to teaching. They ruined her life for fun (she quit teaching, became reclusive and died not long after).

Sarcasm! pretty pathetic approach to a discussion. Maybe you need the brain training yourself in order to listen and debate instead of attcking someone because their views are different to your own.

Thankyou Pinkie, precisely my point!

I know two four year old boys who are bullies, not because they have bad home lives - very far from it! But because their parents completely indulge them and don't check their behaviour. I've just discovered that a number of people I know are not inviting one really lovely friend to events where the children will also be attending, as her son is so horrible to the other children, and she doesn't constrain him in any meaningful way. She still gets invited to the (very rare) adult get-togethers though, because she's lovely. It makes me sad - but I've also stopped seeing her when her son will be around.

Midori, I can relate to what you've said about not protecting those kids at school who were being bullied - I remember being just so relieved that they weren't picking on ME that I never said a word either, whilst the bullies made two girls at school completely miserable. And like you, I'm ashamed when I think back.

When I was a kid there was a boy in my village who had learning difficulties. He was about 12, with the mental age of a 2 year old. One day, my brother and I along with a couple of other village kids (we must have been about 8, the boy was physically older than us) started teasing him relentlessly. We just thought it was a lark, and didn´t really think about the harm we were doing.

Later that day, when my brother and I got home, we got told off by our mum. The Boy´s mum had come to ours to complain. I remember to this day my mum´s disappointment, but she also sat us down calmely to discuss it and explained to us how bad it was.

We never did it again, partly because living in a small community, anything we did could be reported back to our parents.

I don´t consider myself a bad person. I was a child. I´m no saint though, and I can understand how perfectly ´normal´ people can do things that are evil. When I hear about the holocaust I think ´there for the grace of god go I´, because had I not had received good parenting within a supportive tight-knit community, in a tolerant and fair society, I might be a very different person. I might have been a Nazi.

My DS is mixed race. Perhaps if I had been brought up in a different era, my attitudes to other races would have been very different too.

My point is, is is very easy to stand in judgement. I am in no way condoning what happened, and feel pity and great sadness for that poor boy, who was so desperately unhappy he felt he had no other choice but to kill himself. However, it goes to show that nurture plays just as much a role in the way a child behaves as nature. The adults around these children are principally to blame. The bullies need to be left in no doubt that what tehy did is wrong, not by punishment, but by being taught properly!

Yes, but often the old now,now, that was naughty,don't do it again' approach is just not enough to teach' some kids. I am sure these children had heard bullying was wrong before and why are we assuming that their parents are terrible, unconcerned,low lifes?

For all we know they could be the opposite. My parents were really strict ( I mean victorian strict, we use to get the slipper if we did anything wrong)My father is a Dr and we were the `perfect family' on the outside. But my brothers were always involved in fights at school (me too )
One of my brothers got into heroine and has only recently at 35 started getting clean and many other problems prevail in the family.
Maybe my dad was too strict, (I think he was )but I am trying to say that not all bullies come from terrible family backgrounds.

YANBU to be disgusted by this. I'm nearly in tears I always am when I hear things like this.

Unless the the therapy is also going to make these bullies realise exactly how much damage they have done, not just to the poor, poor boy who hanged himself but to every single person in his life, what is the point?

BTW I too do not beleive that most bullies have a "terrible homelife". But then I had quite a shitty homelife growing up and have never bullied anyone,but was bullied because of it.

"I too do not beleive that most bullies have a "terrible homelife". But then I had quite a shitty homelife growing up and have never bullied anyone,but was bullied because of it." Yes and vice versa. Its often the poncy rich kids who are the ones who are the worst bullies.

(WE were not poncy rich kids, we were 5 kids and my mum never worked, we were never spoilt and use to get like 20p pocket money if we were lucky when we went on holiday and had to fund our own stuff when older) :) Just clearing that up!

Oh my god this made me cry. Poor lad.

karathrace "There was a pack of utter bitches who made my left hell at school.
They didn't come from broken homes.
They didn't have free school meals.
They had nice clothes and nice things and were popular and did okay academically (they were in the top stream class with me)"

what a judgmental thing to say! I was from a broken home, free school meals, had a good family life, and the person who bullied me was from a 'nice' family with 'nice clothes and were popular. she was sexually abused by her father. I would say that was a crap life.

counselling is essential for all those involved. some of those who bullied me were too afraid themselves of the bully to not bully me. It made them weak and corwardly but not bad people. You have to make them account for their actions, punishment will just put up defenses and never get to the root of it all and any change for these children to make amends.

My view does not in any way condone the behaviour of these horrible bullies. Vile behaviour that needs addressing.

My bigger concern is why the people in authority did nothing more to stop this. I would be directing my anger at the school and the parents of these children as much as the children myself.

My thoughts to the family of the little boy.

Pomp I hadn't read your post so wasn't having a dig at you

The kids that picked on me in primary school were all spoilt, over indulged brats with very ignorant parents. When I was bullied in secondary school it was simply because by then I was an emotional wreck and an easy target if someone wanted to assert themselves as "top dog".

I have no idea if any of the people that made my life miserable the entire time I was at school had a crap home life. Please do forgive me for not giving a shit.

"The kids that picked on me in primary school were all spoilt, over indulged brats with very ignorant parents."

But surely that is one example of a crap home life?? It doesn't have to mean being poor or having free school meals. A good home life would be one that has involved, interested, sensible parents that set boundaries, show a child they're loved and respected, give them a moral framework, etc. I bet some of the spoiled cildren are not more than superficially happy, unless they have had the rest of that as well.

I think anyone who bullies must have had some serious gaps in their life. They don't know how to be happy in any normal way other than by making others unhappy.

It doesn't excuse what they do, by any means, but it does explain why counselling might make a difference to prevent them doing it again, at least.