to think that, no, it is not possible to pay private school fees simply by "going without"?

[nameymcnamechange]

Of all the many thousands of things that annoy me about Mumsnet, it is this myth that more people could send their children to private school if they prioritised school fees over "extravagant lifestyles" and made sacrifices including but not limited to

• running one car or no car
• not going on holiday, or camping
• economising with food
• buying second hand clothes and not being interested in designer handbags

No, those small economies are not going to make the difference between a state or private education for the vast vast vast majority of families.

So can we please stop posting this kind of nonsense?

And £150 for PE KIT!

I plan to use private education, I live in an area with awful state schools and I am fortunate that i can afford school fees to avoid them. I am not naive though, and realise that many many parents cannot! Why one arth assume they dont cos they arent making the "right savings"

Now there are bursaries/ scholarships for those who want access but can't afford...there are also state schools abound. Sadly the disparity in quality of state schools in this country is ridiculous...and results in people buying homes near the best. Which in itself is an elitist setup resulting in the worst performing ever worse, and the best becoming top flight institutions where the general public again are priced out (in a different way)

Many people cannot scrimp to pay for fees. What are they meant to scrimp?? their food, rent and bills?! ridiculous!

for what it is worth, i had the most amazing state education, froma poor bit of London so i'd makethe most of a good state school if i lived near one...without a moments hesitation!

to whover accused me of boasting, I was not.

I was merely replying to the mass generalision written earlier that said everyone is financially crippled by having children at private school, that is not always the case i assure you.

i agree with the op.

in my family there are no designer handbags to cut out, no holiday to get rid off or economise on (unless a three day weekend away at the sister's in law counts?) and our (only) car is needed for work because there's no public transport to take H to work, and it's worth about a grand quid anyway.

so we couldn't just "cut back" to afford private schooling - there's nothing to cut back ON!

It's not just cutting back either - it's then completely cutting out because school fees rise by 6% on average a year and households costs (energy. VAt blah blah) go up, never mind the omnipresent fear of redundancy. Who's got upwards of £12,000 post tax a year to "cut out"? And that's assuming you only have one child.

Might be possible if you are a homeowner. Sell the house, get a job in term time that is live-in, at a boarding school or 'in service' as a cook ala someone in a Mary Wesley book, although I think she was a prostitute as well. Use proceeds of house to buy a battered second hand mobile home. Spend holidays in mobile home, driving to laybys to save on campsite fees. Live on Tesco basic baked beans in the holidays.

At age 18, inform dc that you now expect them to say thank you and support you forever, given that you have no money left.

Baked beans, nettle soup, deliberately run over pheasants for the pot. Force children to work in the holidays, either begging or window-cleaning.

Beat it into the dcs that they have to be doctors or lawyers or dentists in private practise.

Some parents, sadly, are just not willing to make the necessary sacrifices.

A certain income bracket probably could give up certain things and afford it. Probably many couldnt I agree.

I doubt we could, but even if giving things up meant we could scrape it I dont think I would, it has never occurred to me not to support the state system really and I believe you get back what you put in, I believe they can achieve in the state system with our support in tandem with the school. We are committed to our childrens all round education and IMO holidays are part of that and also childhood is about creating memories etc and those are important.

I had a neighbour a few years ago in a remote place who had 2 kids at boarding school. They had so little money (in laws paid school fees) that they did eat nettle soup and the boys worked as beaters for pheasants. They had their leccy cut off and plugged a line into my electricity supply from my garage. I didn't mind too much because they were lovely and occasionally babysat for me.

Rollmops - what on earth are you talking about?
Actually, don't confuse me with someone who cares.
Of course if I had written in my post that I had come from a working class background, no-one would have batted an eyelid. Again, reverse snobbery - so unattractive.
Bit like the girls who attempted to bully me in school because my family was 'posh'.
Didn't care for them either.

It's not "reverse" snobbery. It's snobbery. Full stop. Like "reverse psychology" is just still.... Psychology. :) sorry - as you were. :)
Why can't people just let others be? Accept that not everyone is the same and stop passing judgement on huge things like whether or not you're a good enough parent?!

agree Starexpat, each to their own and all that :)

MABS: I know school fees are not painful for a lot of people. I would include a good number of very dear friends among that number. I just don't think it necessary to mention the two holidays and two cars. You could just have said 'it's not a struggle for us, we're very fortunate'.

if you read the thread entirely it was said by another poster much earlier that people put kids in private school and sacrifice the 2 holidays a year and cars to fund the education. Her/his words initially,not mine.

I was merely saying that is not true for all, I cannot bear mass generalisations. Saying 'it's not a struggle, we're very fortunate' would not refer to what the other poster suggested.

I also do not actually consider us particularly 'fortunate' so it would be incorrect of me to write that.

Sorry, I didn't realise it was in reaction to another post. But I'm amazed that you don't think you're fortunate? Blimey

I am a single parent with no contribution from his dad and we go on two holidays a year and have a new car. I think we are very fortunate indeed.

no problem ladybiscuit, i just wanted to clarify why i posted that.

I was not referring to finances when i said I don't consider us fortunate. To clarify that ..Financially fortunate? yes Other ways - definitely not :(

I'm sorry - I feel like a complete cow :( I know it's not all about money. My sister is dying and it's very shit indeed.

Have a random virtual hug (((MABS))

Someone asked me a question lower down the thread about the advantage of an independent education.

I claimed that independently educated children earn more over their lifetime than state educated children. This was from an article in the Times around three years ago, and I think Xenia did a thread on it here but I can't seem to find the thread and the Times is subscription only now. But it worked out at a couple of hundred thousand more in terms of lifetime earnings.

I also claimed that independent schools produced better grades at A level. There are a lot of factors in the mix here - probably only appropriate to compare selective independents with selective grammars and non-selective comprehensives with non-selective independents. But the data on the new A* grades at A level show that independent schools dominate

Finally I claimed that independent schools, which only educate 7% of the population of children got a disproportionate amount of places at university.

I think the person challenging the points above assumed I was claiming that independently educated children do better at university. As far as I know that is not true. And it seems logical to me that children who have had to self-start at a state school would do as well if not better at university than those who have been carefully spoonfed at independent schools.

Thanks LadyBiscuit, hug much appreciated. (had hideous time with disabled ds having an 11 hour gen anaesthetic 10 days ago) i just a bit stressed at mo, not you at all :)

God I'm not surprised - children being ill/having operations is beyond exhausting. Hope the op does what it's supposed to - for you and your DS x

Still agree with the poster that argued that the reasons for the stats showing many independent school children at the top of the tree may well not necessarily be the school, but the background/support/genes of the parents. Those that can afford independent schools are I suppose more likely to be involved and intelligent so their offspring likely to do well anywhere within reason. Its not as simple as trotting out the stats that independent schools are "better". Am sure some are but the local private school when I was at school had worse results than my state comp. Looking round at our friends (mostly privately educated) the ones who were educated in the state sector are the ones with the top jobs which frankly I dont understand.

blimey lots of sweeping generalisations there kerala!