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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or was this abuse?

112 replies

SatanOnAScooter · 22/09/2010 23:02

Sorry, this will probably be long.

I cut all ties with my mother about 8 years ago. Someone recently asked why I hadn't made up with her, after all she is my mum - it was a good friend asking and she meant nothing by it, she's never met my mum and doesn't know the real reason behind why we don't have contact - but it got me wondering (again) if I am a horrible, selfish cow or if i am kind of justified in my decision.

The only feelings i really have for her (my mother) are hate and pity, sometimes guilt. sometimes i think those feelings alone should be enough for me to know something was wrong in our relationship, but I swing between wondering if my mother was abusive towards me, or if she was just a crap parent, if i expected too much, was too sensitive etc etc.

I could list literally thousands of examples but I'll just list a few that still sting. I would be really grateful to hear what other people think to give me a kind of objective view on it. I've always felt too ashamed to tell anyone what it was really like. Even my DH doesn't know.

My Dad would sometimes work away from home. She would close all the curtains, lock the doors, keep me off school, lock herself in my bedroom (as it had a tv) all day, in the evening she would move to the lounge and lock me in my room. If i showed any signs of being upset, she would punch and punch me like a lunatic until she literally had no energy left. I was about 8. I would only be for a few days at a time, it was weeks or anything but it fekt like a lifetime at the time. I would just eat biscuits or bread or cereal. Dad would come home and It would be like nothing had happened.

Night before my first GCSE exam, she suddenly, completely out of the blue, grabbed me by the throat and told me I had to leave. she started to throw all my belongings out of my bedroom onto the street (cue a crowd of local kids laughing, shouting etc). I eventually climbed back in through the bathroom window and revised all night in silence, had no dinner, or breakfast, climbed back out through the bathroom window and sat the exam. Somehow I passed (in fact got an A) but fell asleep on the bus on the way home and ended up in the depot. Got home, was like nothing had happened, even had a 'good luck in your exams' card on my bed. She later put an announcement in the local paper congratulating me and saying something like 'I have always been there to support you'. I tore the paper into tiny, tiny shreds and put it in the bin in the local park.

Broke up with my first ever boyfriend. Completely broken hearted, she aksed me 'what's THAT face for?'. I told her and she said, 'he probably thought he could do better than you.' and walked away. Sad

Back with boyfriend, I'm 16, he's at uni in the time before mobiles and email ( and no house phone in his flat). He would call me at a set time on a set day every week from a pay phone. One day the call never came. I fretted and fretted worrying that he'd dumped me or that something bad had happened to him. Eventually on my way to bed I picked up the phone receiver and there was no dialling tone, the phone had been unplugged. There was only me and her at home, and it was so hard to get it back in there was no way it could have fallen out. She had been completely 'normal', sympathetic even, most of the day, and she turned all 'well he's probably found someone else, i bet he's out with her'. I went to bed and cried under my duvet, feeling sad, angry and quite scared, she stormed in, pulled me out of bed by my hair and warned me I'd better shut up.

I was having a hard time at school, being bullied, i had no friends, cos I had no confidence, had shite clothes and just wasn't cool. Parents evening, mother very loudly asks PE teacher how I would go about a career in sport - teacher looks awkward, and confused, knowing a)I'm shite, and b)am not interested in sports. Said in full view of the kids who bullied me, mother starts roaring with laughter. They ripped the piss for weeks and weeks.

She was arguing with my dad once, and she started to punch and kick him, I tried to stop them and ran into the street screaming (aged 7ish) - neighbours came to help, calm the situation down and they kept saying she shouldn't be like that in front of me (she was threatening to slit his throat while he slept) and she just kept saying 'she has to learn, it's a lesson in life, she has to learn, it;s all part of growing up'

She would randomly leave what I can only describe as cryptic suicide notes for me to find. Of course she never did anything, but i lived in fear of it. still do.

House was a disgusting mess, stunk to high heaven, often had maggots in kitchen. I would frantically clean whenever i thought someone might come round (very rare as she had fallen out with everyone and I had no mates but i lived in fear of someone normal seeing how we lived). She rarely washed and quite frankly stunk. I would wash in secret using an old biscuit tin filled with water to wash in my bedroom and would handwash my school uniform and dry it on my radiator. Despite this should would often say in front of people that I stunk, had bad breath, should bath more etc etc.

Dad was killed in an accident at work when I was 11. We were pretty close, but all i felt was numb and scared at being left alone with her. For a while i slept with a chair wedged under my door handle to lock my door from inside because I seriously thought she might try to kill me while I slept.

I basically worked really hard at school, had loads of part time jobs to get me out of the house and I buggered off to uni as soon as I could and never went back, apart from the odd weekend to basically kept up the pretence that everything was ok. I saved and saved the money from my part time jobs (I had 5 during my a levels) and she would often 'borrow' from me and later deny it. I never got any lent money back.

I used to sob in my room watching home and away because I desperately wanted Pippa to foster me Shock

Basically i cut all ties with her years ago when she got the wrong end of the stick about my plans for mothers day and said something a long the lines of 'well it's a good job you hadn't forgotten because I would have been LIVID with you if you had'. We ended the conversation and I thought, well you can fuck off, i changed my number and shortly moved and she now has no idea where in the world i am. She initially sent me a few really nasty letters, but no attempt at reconciliation (not that I thought she would) but I still always kind of stupidly hope it might all go normal, like she might find me,hug me and apologise and we could be a normal family.

She has no idea about my dh or my dc - my kids are the main reason I haven't ever caved in under the guilt. I would NEVER, never, never let her anywhere near them.

She is skint, in poor health and has fallen out with everyone, family, friends, neighbours so is (or was last time I heard) a sad, lonely, bitter old woman. She doesn't have a nice word to say about anyone. when my dad died, people rallied round but she would bitch about each person to the another, make stuff up, and people basically worked out if she was so nasty about so and so who was actually a nice person, she was probably saying the same thing about them. and she was. I never blamed anyone for turning their back on us, i just missed their contact.

She very obviously has some mental health problems. I did tentatively try to help when I was a child - i told an on off friend of hers in secret about the notes and i told her GP she always seemed sad but no one ever wanted to help and i was a scared kid. I didn't know what else to do. Once a teacher took me aside and asked if everything was ok at home and i just said yes. I worried that i might get taken into care and that she would then kill herself.

Seems odd seeing it all written down. when i think about my own kids and the life i want for then, it seems clear to me that my childhood was wrong, awful, sad. But as it's all i know for me, it feels normal and I don't know if i deserved it, or caused it, or expected too much, which in itself sounds totally crazy.

And as she so clearly wasn't 'well' during all of this, should I still feel duty bound to look after her now?? Even though she made my life a living hell? I beat myself up about this a lot, but I actually don't feel i owe her anything (which is what I feel bad about, you hear so many stories, way worse that anything i had to put up with, and the people are then caring their dying evil fucker of a parent, and I wonder if that's what I should be doing). It's kind of only hypothetical anyway because there is no way she would have anything to do with me if i got in touch now.

OP posts:
OrmRenewed · 23/09/2010 13:10

It makes me want to weep for the little girl you were Sad

Of course it was abuse. Would any reasonable adult (let alone parent) treat a child that way?

Poor little lass Sad

tooposhtopost · 23/09/2010 13:14

oh, just read Nordic's post [hmmm]

Nordic, it is very difficult for a victim of abuse to recognise themselves as such. We all assume that our own childhood is exactly the same as everyone else's. The advantage of MN is that it enables one to see a full spectrum and to adjust one's own normality meter and to see abuse as just that. Or not as the case may be.

I for one have found that remarkably surprising illuminating and useful, even though in my first post (namechanged 3 times since then) I was accused of being a troll as my views seemed so very different from what other people regarded as normal. I now feel I have more of a grip on how other people's households function even if I am not quite yet there myself. (I was one of the ones where everyone immediately shouted "leave him").

Claw3 · 23/09/2010 13:22

Seen as we are analysing Nordicpriness, i suspect you might be the person in need of attention here. I assume you are not normally this unsympathetic, what better way to get attention than to say something that is hurtful and goes against the grain on an internet forum. No doubt you will be back to argue your point.

electra · 23/09/2010 13:23

Others have responded far more eloquently than I can. However...

Don't ever blame yourself for this Satanonascooter. You are doing the right thing to keep this person away from you - never doubt that. I agree - look at the stately homes threads.

It can be very hard when you realise - usually well into adulthood, that your parent(s) were abusive. As a child you feel it was your fault, as an adult you still feel guilt.

NordicPrincess - where do you get off with that needless, spiteful response? Speak for yourself!

messylittlemonkey · 23/09/2010 13:23

You owe her nothing, imo.

A prent has a responsibility to care for their child.

Please don't waste your time feeling guilty.

mittz · 23/09/2010 13:24

On Nordics point, Sad there is IME and IMO a need for 'witnesses' to what happened and to verify in your head that somehow it wasn't your fault because you keep stuff in your head for so long it becomes distorted and whilst your moral compass might be strong for other people's suffering, somehow, you don't feel the same about yourself, that somehow, you were bad and thus 'deserved' it.
Also, again IMO and IME there is a need to 'purge' what is in your head because it truly becomes toxic Sad. It may be necessary to go over and over it like a body spewing a gastric virus out.

It is not 'attention seeking', and is actually an act of courage to start to empty your head...

To the OP, Lovey, I think it would be a huge mistake to let her into your life, though I understand you questioning it, like others I read with tears and admire you for the bravery and courage and humanity with which you are carving out a life for yourself and your family.

I hope the process you are going through now brings even more light into your shadows.. take care x

proudnglad · 23/09/2010 13:29

Nordic - why don't you piss off.

As everyone else has said, it is of course abuse Satan.

I had a difficult childhood and a toxic mother. My mother was mentally ill. I feel bad for her that she suffered but I got to a point where I needed to look out for myself and not contend with her shit anymore.

The thing I most want to say to you is this, DO NOT whatever happens be tricked/guilt-tripped/manipulated into looking after your mother. The misplaced guilt I understand only too well, I'm afraid you have to learn to live with it but you musn't listen to it or act on it.

You have done and are doing the best possible thing by freezing her out.

QuintessentialShadows · 23/09/2010 13:30

NordicPrincess is just attentionseeking. Lets not feed her. Wink

SlightlyJaded · 23/09/2010 13:31

what everyone has said, but just wanted to send you a big hug, you sound like a brave and wonderful woman. I would also urge you to try counselling again - if only to have someone 'officially' label your childhood abusive for you. There is no doubt that it was horrifically abusive, but perhaps if you start to really believe that, you can stop having such conflicting feelings towards your mother. Good luck xxx

MadAboutQuavers · 23/09/2010 13:42

I completely understand your guilt, satanonascooter

My Dad had the whole family tied up in knots of fear due to his mental condition, and I still have nightmares now about the abuse

My greatest (unspoken) fear is that in his old age, he will expect to come and live with me so I can look after him. It's not happening, ever

You've given up enough of your life to fear and terror. Don't think you have a "duty" to put up with it being in your life for the sake of your evil and deranged Mother. She won't change unless she gets medication and extensive hospital treatment

Oh, and NordicPrincess - fuck off with your immature nastiness. Go and play in the traffic on the M6.

MissWooWoo · 23/09/2010 13:55

Satan I couldn't make it through your post Sad but I just wanted to let you know that you owe this woman nothing

as for nordic - did you really mean to be so so horrible? when someone has been through such a horrific time they do question whether what they experienced was abuse, they doubt what they think they know, they are unsure of themselves. It's unbelievable isn't it? But then so is that level of abuse. I hope you feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself and balls up to Satan with an apology.

Stay strong Satan, I wish I could turn back time for you x

Warmseabreeze · 23/09/2010 13:56

What a horrible childhood you had, I think it is perfectly reasonable to never let this woman darken your door again! I cant imagine she would be able to change, I would protect yourself and your family from the misery she could bring again.

Take care xxx

Fluffymonster · 23/09/2010 14:53

Gosh - sorry haven't read whole thread but did read OP. Yes, it was abuse. Your mum has serious mental health problems and I'm not surprised you cut all ties - she sounds utterly toxic, both in terms of how she manipulated outsider's opinions of her (i.e. the congrats on the exam results, good luck card etc.) and messed with your head (the damaging and hurtful comments following a bout of being 'normal/sympathetc' re. the break up with bf). You clearly, unsurprisingly, function much better without her, and she does actually sound quite dangerous, given her ability to switch from being 'normal' to being so hate-filled when alone with you. There seems to be some major envy/jealousy thing going on there. It would not surprise me at all if she had a terrible childhood herself - but that is not your fault. DO NOT LET HER EVER HAVE ANY UNSUPERVISED ACCESS TO YOUR CHILDREN.

I understand the guilt aspect of not seeing her, but this is probably because it's conventionally accepted that we 'should' care for our parents when they get older. Tbh, in your case, if you chose never to be in contact again you have every right! Do you have some underlying doubts, and thinking of a reconciliation? I do suggest some form of counselling - might help you to work things out. The very fact that you have any doubt at all, as to whether it was abuse, sounds like she has left a few scars. I'm so sorry. [[hug]]

No 8,9,11,16yr old ever deserves to be neglected, punched, locked-up, subjected to humiliating taunts like you did, for years. It's classical, long-term, physical/emotional/psychological, abuse.

Oh, I did notice NordicPrincess's frankly callous response - anyone with an ounce of empathy would realise that if a person is subjected to years of living with a parent who treats them like shit one minute, and is normal the next, they're going to have a few issues. Not least of all guilt, confusion - and the niggling doubt of whether the abuse was really abuse.

pigletmania · 23/09/2010 15:16

I am Shock and Sad for you, need support and counselling to help you get over this. As others have said one of the ways to do this is cut her out of your life, you don't need her, you don't owe her a thing. She rejected you when you needed her most, treated you like dirt. You would not tolerate this from any other person and should not tolerate it from your mum. Yes you do indeed sound like a lovely person, and a better one than I would have been in that situation. Sounds like she is a nasty, evil and poisonous person, and yes people can be without having mental health illness. Good luck big MN hugs to youxx

pigletmania · 23/09/2010 15:19

Nordicpricess that is so insensitive and harsh. Actually some people find it easier to talk on forums which can infact be quite helpful, people offering a lot of sound advice and help. I hope that you never suffered like Satan has.

Hedgeblunder · 23/09/2010 15:38

It definitly was, I feel so terrible that anyone had to go through that, I understand your need to talk about it on here, I've said things on here I wouldn't utter in real life believe me.

This woman probably will never change. If you do feel you need to do something the kindest thing you can do is phone social services an explain you feel she may need extra assistance in the form of a nurse/mental health professional.

You sound lovely, concentrate your love on your own children and husband.

octopusinabox · 23/09/2010 15:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

droves · 23/09/2010 16:09

satanonascotter im so very proud of you for cutting that woman out of your life.
It is without a doubt the best thing you ever did.
Sadly your childhood mirrors my own at points .
I would never feel guilt towards my own mother for cutting her out of my life.
If i heard she was ill , dying , or in need of care i would not lift a finger to help her , nor would i give her a seconds compassionate thought... the same way she had none for me whilst i was a vunerable child.
I am a result of her treatment towards me as a child /teenager.
I have no love for the woman , and although i do not wish her harm , i could not bear to bring myself near her.
If she asked , i would simply say no.
She will never know my children , and therefore can do them no damage.
It is better that way.

There is a saying that sums it all up actually.
Reap what you sow.

porcamiseria · 23/09/2010 18:00

typing one handed sorry

bit she sounds vile, move on and away

poor you x

Ipom · 23/09/2010 18:54

Jesus bloody Christ Satan...no wonder you cut your mum out of your life.

I can understand why you feel as though are over reacting and feeling guilty and torn, it's natural, but for Gods sake dont let her into your life because of that.

Yes your mum is alone but she only has herself to blame for that. Although people have said councilling may be a good idea and I do agree with it to a point but a lot of this stuff wont be worked out until you have reason to..you must have so many questions that need answering and the only person who can do that is your mum, but it's too big a risk for your own health to get back in contact with her.

You are kind of stuck at the moment.

I wish I caoulf suggest something or say something that can help, but I cant.

Just please dont feel guilty about your mum now or ever. You did what you had to and it was for the best.

SatanOnAScooter · 23/09/2010 20:56

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded. I'm only half way through your responses and I can barely read for sobbing like a baby welling up at your kind, compassionate posts. I am massively touched by those of you who have shared personal experiences too, it's shit that so many of you have had to endure similar things. Of course I read your experiences and know instantly it was not your fault, that you should absolutely feel no guilt, but then it's so hard to see that ourselves isn't it? If that makes sense? ykwim

I know many of you have suggested counselling but like lots of posts have also said, I kind of feel I'm beyond it. Not always, I have bad days sometimes but generally I think I'm ok about it. I do worry how I will feel when she dies, but I suppose I'll deal with that when it happens.

I have no plans to get in touch with her, I just often think that's what I ought to do. The thought of her even being in the same room as my DC makes me feel physically sick for a start. She doesn't deserve to even witness a single little innocent smile from any of them.

I may show my DH some of my post at some point. It's just so embarrasing still, it might not have been my fault but I still actually was the grotty, stinky kid at school lovingly referred to a 'gypo' (gotta love the wit of my classmates). And just loads of it it makes me feel deeply ashamed, which is why it was so much easier to offload on here.

Nordic, err, of course I was 'seeking attention' (although I'd have used a better phrase). This is a public forum. If I didn't want people to read and respond, I'd have written a diary. But thanks for your... insight. Helpful.

OP posts:
mrsmindcontrol · 23/09/2010 21:17

I read your OP open mouthed in awe of such a hideous situation.
All respect to you for surviving this and for not being consumed with bitternes.

I wish you all the best for your future life.

Oh - and YANBU by never contacting this woman again. You've broken free of her evil grip.

Much much love to you and your family.

Vev · 23/09/2010 21:25

It sounds like you were very much abused - don't feel ashamed, you weren't the one in control, that was your mother's job and she let you down, she's the one who should be ashamed.

You deserve lots of respect for surviving what sounds absolutely horrendous. Good on you.

Theincrediblesulk1 · 23/09/2010 21:26

She sounds narcissistic and horrible, i think you made the correct choice for you and your sanity too. I am so sorry for all you went through, it really makes you wonder how you managed to survive.

Hugs to you babe xxx

Casserole · 23/09/2010 21:27

Oh Scooter that was so hard to read. I am so sorry you went through all that. Sad

Yes, it sounds like she had mental health issues. But she was also an adult, and there were other adults around her. She and they had the responsbility to get her help and to protect you, and they failed on both counts.

You were abused, and I do not blame or judge you one little bit for choosing to live a healthier path away from her. I wish you every success on that path and in your position I would not go anywhere near her again either.

I am so sorry you went through all that and that nobody stopped her or protected you. You were a child, you are not in any way responsible.

Every happiness to you and your new little family.

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