to think that truely feminist stance on prostitution, is to support legalisation?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

I recently moved to an inner city area.

There is a known brothel here and a homeless shelter.

I have seen some very sad, desperate sights walking past our home lately.

I wouldn't want any child of mine involved in this trade, however this does strike as something which desperately needs regulating - for the sake of the women, girls and boys involved.

Prohibition has failed miserably.

AIBU?

Well there are plenty of working girls who are members of the IUSW, if any had a problem with Douglas, they would soon shout.

Does the law regard a man who runs a prostitution escort agency as a pimp and therefore he is doing something illegal?

more info on the cunning, Douglas Fox, and his Guardian credentials
www.guardian.co.uk/profile/douglas-fox

It looks like the sex worker, Douglas Fox, is worried about his agency business

"Most British subjects are, in one form or another, controlled for gain, but apparently a sex worker's consent to work through the agency of another is to be illegal and worse"

The sex worker, Douglas, attacks feminists
www.iusw.org/node/69

I wonder if he carries out the same sex acts as the women employed in his agency? What sort of sex worker is he?

The thing that has surprised me most about prostitution in three threads I have been posting on and asking questions over the last couple of days is just how protected the men in prostitution are.

If a prostitute supports her husband when he has no income, he is protected because somehow that is not seen as "living off a prostitute".

Pimps call themselves "sex workers" and escape prosecution for pimping.

and so on...

Yet the happy hookers are adamant that they are in control. No, they are simply being used in more ways than one.

What about those of us who are independent?

Mandamumu wrote - "What about those of us who are independent?"

Men control who they have sex with. The choice of whether sex between a man and a prostitute occurs is determined almost always by the man. The prostitute can usually turn away the occasional client that is "unsuitable" but then the man has the final say on whether or not he feels like taking no for an answer.

As prostitutes can't legally solicit for business, they are reliant on men deciding they want to use prostitutes.

Men decide how much they want to pay. Prostitutes can set a rate. If a man doesn't like the price, the prostitute has to decrease the rate or lose the client. He can just go elsewhere. Meanwhile, the prostitute could go out of business.

How informed is the choice of career-choice prostitutes?

Considering how little exposure feminism receives in mainstream society and that almost all of the general public don't know anything about feminism.

I doubt very much if many career-choice prostitutes have even heard of feminism and the feminist arguments against prostitution.

vesuvia, you plainly aren't reading what we're saying. We can, and do, refuse to meet clients we don't like the sound/feel of in emails, texts and phone calls. If he turns up/we arrive at his chosen venue and he's a tosser, we chuck him out. (This is why it is important to allow two women to work together, btw; the current law sees two indies working together as pimping each other. Nowt to do with the Proceeds of Crime Act, of course.) Or we walk.

And yes, of course he can go elsewhere. Fortunately, most clients of indies accept that the stated rate is as stated, the services offered as are stated etc. Your post actually sound very similar to the kind of thing that the more vile variety of PN punter posts. Which surprises me.

Soliciting for business means hanging round street corners - we have websites to do that work for us. Legally, btw, I am so tired of saying that over and over and over.

As for us only being happy to do this work because we don't know about feminist attitudes to our trade...

Oh, if only there were a really big and juicy ROFL emoticon here. Patronising, insulting, and demonstrating a palpable lack of knowledge, experience and empathy. Are you a fairly new recruit? It is possible to regain independence of thought: I did. :)

OFFS wrote "Your post actually sound very similar to the kind of thing that the more vile variety of PN punter posts."

Really? Thanks for the insult.

Women considering choosing a career in prostitution might benefit from considering the following points when assessing their career choice:

• there are better paid jobs.

• there are other jobs, jobs in which a woman who has "a bad day at the office" will not end up as a murder or rape statistic.

• the stigma of prostitution is likely to last your entire lifetime. If you are 18 now, you can expect to carry that stigma and secrecy for three times longer than you have already lived. If you get to 60 and it's all a bit of mental strain to put up with, bear in mind that you can expect to have to deal with it for another quarter of a century.

The choice is yours.

dittany is there any reason that prostitutes should all agree with each other? Particularly when one group did not enjoy their experiences, and the other lot does? No-one here claims to speak for all WGs, but you insist that your group are more important than mine. Why?

And yes, vesuvia, your post did sound a whole lot like the more nasty ones on PN. The ones that say, if we refuse to pay more than (pick a number), they'll all have to drop their prices in the end. The posts that say, these fancy-smanchy whores who are getting above their station asking more than £150 in central London...

I recognise that the intent behind it was different - at least, I hope so - but the "feel" of it, to me, was exactly the same.

"Remember your place, bitch".

That's how it feels.

Now I'll shrug it off if that's not what you meant; I'm fairly thick-skinned. But please, give it some thought, huh?

vesuvia, OK, I see your position; you really do feel nothing but contempt for us. It'll be PTSD next.

Just so long as I know where I am. :)

Yes, dittany, I hear what I'm saying. I'd like to see some real numbers about who is exploited and who isn't; I'd like the real numbers about bonded labour/slavery too. Most particularly I'd like to see some real action being taken against rapists. But we already have laws about all of these things, and still rapes/sexual abuses/all sorts of other nasties happen.

Outlawing punters simply will not help.

I don't do anal sex.

Stop with the emotive phrasing.