to think that NO, not every woman can breastfeed!

[meltedchocolate]

OK basically a friend loves BFing. Great. I am happy. It is a wonderful thing indeed! So much so that she wants to be a BFing counsellor and is going to start training. Lovely. Glad she is doing something she wants to. Now though she seems to think she knows all there is to know about BFing and is driving me nuts with it. Basically she thinks that EVERY woman can BF and there is no reason why someone couldn't and is totally unsympathetic to anyone not BFing.

I BFed my son til he was 6 weeks old. I stopped then because I couldn't keep up. He was a 9 lb baby and was huge by that point. I was exhausted and wasn't eating well and my boobs had shrunk back to an A cup while I was still BFing. I was constantly leaking and was swapping my tops several times a day. I would soak my t shirt in half an hour if I didn't swap pads every ten mins or so. When he wanted to feed I could BF for an hour and he would still be very hungry after so I had to give in and give him a bottle. (this started around 4-5 weeks) I was so so upset. I cried about it a lot. Two years down the line and she still makes me feel like it was my fault and that I could have done things differently, and would have suceeded. Despite the fact that we started brilliantly, had no problem latching and was very successful for the first 4 weeks.

I told her about my mother who tried in vain and desperately to BF all three of her children and was eventually told to stop trying. She had very flat nipples and none of the things to help this problem were working. Despite her best efforts none of us would ever latch. Friend basically said mum was wrong and she could have BFed.... My mother has always been upset she never got to do this. I feel very defensive of her.

I should say that we fell out nearly a year ago and have put it behind us now and that the falling out was mostly my fault, though I have appologised on many occassions now. I think she is doing/ saying these things on purpose to annoy me now though.

Sorry for whining on. It's just been grating on me. Sad I know :o

AIBU to be upset and think friend is wrong and could be more tactful?

Sorry to be think but what is NCT? and what groups did you have?

the periods, spots and glasses is not perhaps the best comparison, I meant that they are personal physical attributes, down to our biology... not that BF is a blemish, curse or anything otherwise unpleasant...

"The milk stage is such a small part of the DCs lives when you place the whole child's life into context. Focus on the contentment, growth and development, not what you have to do to get there."

Thanks for that. That had never even occured to me in my upset about this.

NCT- National Childbirth Trust. I went on an antenatal group which you pay for. We have met up weekly since then so I've always had a sounding board which isn't made up of family or NHS staff.

I wish I had had this but the only women I stayed in contact with from antenatal classes didn't BF.

The only thing that could possibly have made me feel any worse about my inability to continue BF my daughter after 7 weeks would have been someone like your friend telling me there was no reason I couldn't continue.

I am presuming she is coming at this from a standpoint of wanting to help people. This kind of attitude is reminiscent of all negative HV stories which abound on Mumsnet. The idea that there is a right and wrong, one size that fits all.

YANBU.

I am dealing with the playground mafia at the moment , but this reminds me of the santamonious judgement I got for choosing not to breastfeed. It makes me cross that people judge rather than support.

Can I jump in with my tuppence worth?

I've had 4 kids.

DS1 - jaundiced, very ill, 20 plus years ago, taken to nursery at night and bottle fed, lovely MW in cottage hospital who tried and tried, as did I, to get him to feed from me -with no luck. Felt incredibly guilty, especially as he went on to develop hearing problems

DS2 - BF a breeze, BF til almost a year

DD1 - fucking nightmare. Would not feed. Latch on, two sucks, off, yelling and screaming.

DD2 - BF a breeze, fed til 18 months.

Point is, DD1 had a medical condition, silent reflux and multiple food intolerances which we found out in the end meant that she could not digest long chain proteins and after 3 months of hell on wheels she ended up on a special formula prescriped by a paediatrician.

Sometimes, it's not the Mum its the baby - there's two people involved in BF

Rant over.

YANBU about her attitude, but YABU because she is right. Flat nipples is not a barrier to bf, if you have proper advice. The size of a baby does not mean you don't have enough milk, leaking doesn't mean you don't have enough mile...etc etc. Your post is full of bf myths.

But before you flame me I don't mean that its easy. And she sounds like a bit of a cow. But to be generous, if she's just started the course she'll be a zealot for a while.

BonniePrinceBilly - not every mother CAN BF every child.

Please see my post.

I have had a crap experience with pro- breast feeders, and all too often find they are unwilling to believe there can be any reason at all why ALL mothers cannot bf.

I have been on fluoxetine for 15 years- throughout all 3 of my pregnancies. (Dd also had a severe tongue tie, which meant she struggled even with a bottle) Prozac is considered one of the least compatible with bf, although relatively safe in pregnancy. I had this confirmed AGAIN by my consultant this week, after a pushy bf counsellor at the sure start centre made me feel like crap. In all three pregnancies, i have been advised that the risk to my mental health of changing a drug that clearly works for me is detrimental. I KNOW there are drugs considered safer to BF- but they don't work for me. However, OP, no doubt your friend would rather i risked severe depression, in order to bf. I can't see how that would make me a better mother.

Sorry for ranty hi=jack- 38 weeks pg with no 3 and this has hit a nerve.

So , YANBU, and I hope during her training, your friend becomes more tolerant!

whitehorn

Before formula, they used wet nurses en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse

or in later centurys made their own formulas en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_milk

Bonnie - my mother with very flat nipples tried with lots of help, with THREE children to BF. Please tell me what she could have done differently? Perhaps all the little tooly things she got were faulty? Or that she wasn't trying hard enough? Or that all the advice given was not 'proper'? One size does NOT fit all... Maybe some or even most flat nipple issues can be solved... but not all...

Though I appreciate you're trying to be diplomatic :o

I don't believe for a moment that she (or anyone) thinks that every mother can bf every baby, unless shes a total moron. Its plainly obvious that there will always be some....do you suppose she thinks a mother can bf after a dble mastectomy, or while on certain drugs? Come off it!

It is true that the majority of women who have been told they can't bf actually could (if they wanted to and if they had the correct support/advice etc), and the majority of obstacles to BF can be over come (same disclaimer). Not all, but most.

Indeed Bonnie, but we shouldn't assume that everyone we meet is in the majority. That's hardly fair. Anywho, I feel much better now. Was just talking to friend (not about this, just generally) and I think I may have let it play on my mind a bit much.

Well in theory purlcity someone else would have brought the baby to your breast and allowed it to feed, however in practice I'm sure that no one in the nhs would have thought of that :(

YANBU to feel that your friend is being insensitive.

But it is true that in countries where bf is the norm, breastfeeding failure is very rare compared to the UK (where it should be rarer, given that most women here are in better physical health following childbirth compared to women in developing countries where bf is ubiquitous).

Most (well over 90%) women in the UK who believe they 'can't' breastfeed 'could' have done so had they had different care and support.

I think that's an outrage quite frankly and I understand people feeling frustrated and angry about it, to the point that sometimes it makes them speak insensitively to women who haven't been able to breastfeed.

I think if 90% of women who could have had a healthy vaginal birth ended up having emergency c/s because of a lack of education and poor maternity care we'd be up in arms about it. But because formula is the normal way to feed babies in the UK anyway nobody thinks it's that big a deal.

"I understand people feeling frustrated and angry about it, to the point that sometimes it makes them speak insensitively to women who haven't been able to breastfeed."

So you understand why someone who wants to train to be a breastfeeding counsellor would choose to speak insensitively to someone who hasn't managed to breastfeed successfully?

People often go into bf counselling to start with because they feel very strongly that everyone who WANTS to breastfeed should be empowered to do so. Not everyone is a natural good listener - but education in counselling should help with that. There are many people who see this as a political issue and are very fired up about it. I'm not convinced that the OP's friend is choosing to say these things to upset her but is perhaps just tactless and over enthusiastic. I suspect it's very common for women who've had wounding experiences of breastfeeding to see offence in discussions where none is intended.

Terrible shame that not everyone who wants to go into some kind of counselling isn't a good listener, don't you think?

Can't see the wood for the trees springs to mind.

conversely some who bf without difficulty can be judgemental and assume that those who dont bf didnt try hard enough/lack commitment.which can cause upset and offence

anyone working in potentially emotionally fraught circumstances needs supervision,reflection and awareness of own motives.in order to regulate self and intervene

How long has your friend been bf-ing for? Perhaps she's just a bit fired up about her success at the moment and feeling a bit evangelical, and doesn't realise how she's upsetting you? You know how crazy those first few months after giving birth can be!

YANBU

YANBU I had a similar problem with dd. She had no interest in latching on and by the second day I was worried that she was getting dehydrated ie no wet nappies etc, so she started on formula.
I do feel bad about not being able to bf but we are
happy mum and a happy healthy dd.

oYANBU= I tried but a NICU baby used t tube feeding - he just would not suck and was as hungry as hell - I just did not produce enough.

My ex frined was a breast feeding zealot and as she is now shagging my husband likes to point out that she is better made for having babies and will rpovide his new kids with a better start in life than I did for our two.

Small regret on my part but two hallp healthy beautiful children isall I need.