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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that NO, not every woman can breastfeed!

145 replies

meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 13:53

OK basically a friend loves BFing. Great. I am happy. It is a wonderful thing indeed! So much so that she wants to be a BFing counsellor and is going to start training. Lovely. Glad she is doing something she wants to. Now though she seems to think she knows all there is to know about BFing and is driving me nuts with it. Basically she thinks that EVERY woman can BF and there is no reason why someone couldn't and is totally unsympathetic to anyone not BFing.

I BFed my son til he was 6 weeks old. I stopped then because I couldn't keep up. He was a 9 lb baby and was huge by that point. I was exhausted and wasn't eating well and my boobs had shrunk back to an A cup while I was still BFing. I was constantly leaking and was swapping my tops several times a day. I would soak my t shirt in half an hour if I didn't swap pads every ten mins or so. When he wanted to feed I could BF for an hour and he would still be very hungry after so I had to give in and give him a bottle. (this started around 4-5 weeks) I was so so upset. I cried about it a lot. Two years down the line and she still makes me feel like it was my fault and that I could have done things differently, and would have suceeded. Despite the fact that we started brilliantly, had no problem latching and was very successful for the first 4 weeks.

I told her about my mother who tried in vain and desperately to BF all three of her children and was eventually told to stop trying. She had very flat nipples and none of the things to help this problem were working. Despite her best efforts none of us would ever latch. Friend basically said mum was wrong and she could have BFed.... My mother has always been upset she never got to do this. I feel very defensive of her.

I should say that we fell out nearly a year ago and have put it behind us now and that the falling out was mostly my fault, though I have appologised on many occassions now. I think she is doing/ saying these things on purpose to annoy me now though.

Sorry for whining on. It's just been grating on me. Sad I know :o

AIBU to be upset and think friend is wrong and could be more tactful?

OP posts:
mamatomany · 17/09/2010 14:15

I have had breast surgery and was told by several midwives I wouldn't be able to breast feed, 13 weeks later we're still going strong because I want to.
Tell her she has 2 ears and 1 mouth and should use them proportionally.

BetsyBoop · 17/09/2010 14:15

"Maybe you could point out to her that although most women are physically/biologically able to breastfeed, there's a lot more to it than that. For a lot of women it might not work emotionally or practically in their lives, and lots more women don't get the support they need to make it work. How is it helpful to make women feel guilty for not being "successful"?"

Took the words right out of my mouth :) (and I say that as someone who b/f two children until around the 18month mark)

smellmycheese · 17/09/2010 14:19

people like this really piss me off! A bf counsellor should be there to help and support those women who would like to bf and need a little extra help for whatever reason. I don't understand why this should extend to judging those who don't.

Original poster
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 14:21

purlcity - she would tell you that you could start now Hmm

I amazed that you all agree and feel a bit better now.

I don't feel I could say anything to her because me her and other friend are meeting up as a trio now and i don't want tp make pther friend feel awkward.

OP posts:
Original poster
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 14:22

Ooops. Looks like I can't find my o... That was to and other

OP posts:
Chil1234 · 17/09/2010 14:24

Bide your time. Given her enthusiasm for the subject, it's bound to come up sooner or later and then you will have a few answers up your sleeve.... A surprising amount of people that can do something easily (lose weight, give up smoking, breastfeed, solve quadratic equations etc.) like to crow about it.... and the worst ones think that everyone else is just shamming when they say they can't do it.

dixiechick1975 · 17/09/2010 14:24

I hope the training is good.

Too much focus on the woman imo.

Should be more focus on the circumstances.

I probably could have fed a non disabled baby - only have her so i'll never know for sure.

Not all babies can be breastfed - my DD was born with a disbility. Whisked away for tests, seen by Dr after Dr. Then incubator and tube fed. Exact opposite of skin to skin and keep offering the breast.

I also later wondered if it is nature's way to ensure survival of the fittest. Mum in shock at disabled baby - no milk/baby wont feed..baby dies. Thankfully for my DD we have formula.

Original poster
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 14:30

Do you kow what her argument was?!

'Think about it - women in third world countries feed their babies after earthquakes' -- This was after I had said that I wasn't eating enough at the time.

  1. You have never been to a third world country and not after an earthquake so i am amazed at your knowledge
  1. Have you seen these women and babies on the telly? They are incredibly thin for a reason!
  1. You have barely started the course - stop thinking you know everything!
OP posts:
Original poster
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 14:31

Oh and 4. Surely a survival instinct kicks in for these women. I am in no such circumstance!

OP posts:
Whitethorn · 17/09/2010 14:33

Hi - I think most women can but some find it harder than others, I really struggled.

What did women do pre formula? How did they feed their babies?

PutTheKettleOn · 17/09/2010 14:34

oh god, she will be a rubbish BF counsellor! Reminds me of the one who told me, when I was having trouble BF DD1 'there's no such thing as low supply, just bad technique'. Although there may be some small element of truth in that, those words haunted me and I cried buckets when I ended up giving up, feeling it was all down to my 'bad' technique.

dixiechick1975 · 17/09/2010 14:36

wet nurse

condensed milk / pap - bread and water

hence shocking mortality rates

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 17/09/2010 14:46

But, hypothetically, if you are a breastfeeding counsellor and you come across a woman who has not received good support, and has been on the receiving end of awful advice (there was a thread on here yesterday about a HV who said to a woman with loads of milk, "oh yours must just be poor quality" which is just incorrect), then isn't it part of your job to say "well actually these things you've been told are myths, they're not signs of someone who is unable to breastfeed at all"?

OP, if your baby was having lots of wet and pooey nappies, then the only evidence you've given for being unable to breastfeed is that he was feeding for up to an hour. You said you had lots of milk, so much you were soaking T-shirts. He was 4-5 weeks old and feeding for an hour, and you had lots of milk, no supply problems, no latch problems, why did you think you were doing something wrong? That sounds like breastfeeding was going brilliantly!

At that age, they DO feed constantly, it's not a sign that something's wrong at all. It's a growth spurt, 6 weeks, they feed constantly to get your supply up.

Unless there's something you're not saying, it sounds like you had a brilliant breastfeeding relationship, and didn't need to give up, but I bet you got bad advice from someone and thought it wasn't right. That's a real shame, and it's not your fault, and I'm really sorry you felt sad. But what is your friend supposed to do given that information, pretend that you couldn't breastfeed?

smellmycheese · 17/09/2010 15:04

tortoise, I don't think OP was claiming that she couldn't physically breast feed. She said that she gave up as she was struggling to keep up with the demand.

I gave up bf at around three months for exactly the same reason. I physically could bf, but mentally and practically I just couldn't keep up. I found the decision really hard, but once I had, I realised that it was the right decision (for me)

A bf counsellor telling me that everyone can do it regardless would not have helped or made me feel any less guilty for what I saw (at the time) as selfishly putting my own needs first.

As others have said there are lots of other factors that contribute to whether someone can bf or not, not just physical.

Original poster
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 15:08

Thanks Tortoise for your input. What I meant was up until that point (4-5 weeks) I had been soaking my t-shirts. Around the time I stopped I seem to produce barely anything. I felt the nature of my leaking wasn't right because it was so much and wondered if that is why I ended up producing so little. He is two now so my memory is a tad foggy of it but I remember thinking he just ins't getting enough. I can't remember if I was trying to keep him going til giving up after an hour or if he was trying to suck for that length. He didn't seem satisfied and my boobs just shrunk! After it all going so well it just seemed to stop working the same as it had been. I tried feeding and bottling at that point but as soon as I starting with bottles as well my supply practically disappeared entirely. It was horrible.

The thing is I had barely any advice from anyone. My mum had never managed to BF as I said and my HV was lousy and didn't take any interest in me and my son at all at that time. Stupidly I did not ask for help. I just decided that it was pointless, my supply was dwindling and I better save myself the heart ache and give up. I will never know if it could have been different but neither does my friend. :(

OP posts:
Meglet · 17/09/2010 15:09

If my DD had been my first child I would probably be insisting that everyone can breast feed as she was a champion feeder and it didn't hurt.

However the reality of it is that I had DS first and trying to get him to bf was fecking awful and miserable.

There are many reasons why women don't end up bf, birth experience, whether the baby is able to latch on, help at home, how supportive the dad is etc. I hope your friend appreciates she has been very lucky and can see other mothers points of view.

cory · 17/09/2010 15:13

There's only bad technique- excellent! So dd's failure to thrive never happened. And presumably the fact that she was in a wheelchair by 7 was also due to bad technique? Hmm

It was attitudes like this that made me refuse to supplement my breastfeeding, though dd was getting more and more emaciated. I persevered but in retrospect I feel very guilty about it, as there is no doubt that I was putting dd at risk.

As Dixie says: "Should be more focus on the circumstances." And recognition that there are circumstances which are beyond anybody's control.

JaneS · 17/09/2010 15:13

Wow, I'm sure anyone who's had their breasts removed (it is an option for people with a strong family history of early breast cancer) will feel fab about her then.

xstitch · 17/09/2010 15:14

YANBU.

The mortality rate for children and new mothers in 3rd world countries is high. I am sure feeding difficulties contribute to the infant mortality rate.

mamatomany · 17/09/2010 15:17

Wow, I'm sure anyone who's had their breasts removed (it is an option for people with a strong family history of early breast cancer) will feel fab about her then.

I do think that's an extreme example if you don't mind my saying.

ANTagony · 17/09/2010 15:17

YANBU

It takes two for feeding to work. My (eldest) son turned out to have no suckle reflex. He had no instinct to close his mouth around a teat or my nipple. Nothing that any breast feeding counselor could solve for me.

He was cup fed expressed breast milk for the first 6 months - hard and sometimes messy work.

mamatomany · 17/09/2010 15:19

The mortality rate for children and new mothers in 3rd world countries is high. I am sure feeding difficulties contribute to the infant mortality rate.

In Uganda for example the first biggest killer malaria, the second is oral mutation, where witch doctors remove the baby's teeth so Cow and Gate won't be saving as many as you might expect.

JaneS · 17/09/2010 15:20

Yes, it is mama - I was just thinking of it because my lovely teacher is thinking about it and I'm worried for her.

I guess the argument about babies with disabilities is perhaps also an easily-separable case.

StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2010 15:22

It sounds like her intentions are good but her words aren't.

As for the "you can start now" comment, I think in a clumsy way she was trying to bring up relactation, after all most people havent heard of it. Am impressed if she has supported someone through that!

JaneS · 17/09/2010 15:22

I meant to say, I think if you do have breast surgery/deformities, you already have so much to deal with because our culture insists that breasts are very important parts of what it means to be a woman. It can't help if there's an idea that 'every woman can breastfeed (oh, but you're an exception)', because it feels as if you're saying, 'this person isn't really a proper woman'.