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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that NO, not every woman can breastfeed!

145 replies

meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 13:53

OK basically a friend loves BFing. Great. I am happy. It is a wonderful thing indeed! So much so that she wants to be a BFing counsellor and is going to start training. Lovely. Glad she is doing something she wants to. Now though she seems to think she knows all there is to know about BFing and is driving me nuts with it. Basically she thinks that EVERY woman can BF and there is no reason why someone couldn't and is totally unsympathetic to anyone not BFing.

I BFed my son til he was 6 weeks old. I stopped then because I couldn't keep up. He was a 9 lb baby and was huge by that point. I was exhausted and wasn't eating well and my boobs had shrunk back to an A cup while I was still BFing. I was constantly leaking and was swapping my tops several times a day. I would soak my t shirt in half an hour if I didn't swap pads every ten mins or so. When he wanted to feed I could BF for an hour and he would still be very hungry after so I had to give in and give him a bottle. (this started around 4-5 weeks) I was so so upset. I cried about it a lot. Two years down the line and she still makes me feel like it was my fault and that I could have done things differently, and would have suceeded. Despite the fact that we started brilliantly, had no problem latching and was very successful for the first 4 weeks.

I told her about my mother who tried in vain and desperately to BF all three of her children and was eventually told to stop trying. She had very flat nipples and none of the things to help this problem were working. Despite her best efforts none of us would ever latch. Friend basically said mum was wrong and she could have BFed.... My mother has always been upset she never got to do this. I feel very defensive of her.

I should say that we fell out nearly a year ago and have put it behind us now and that the falling out was mostly my fault, though I have appologised on many occassions now. I think she is doing/ saying these things on purpose to annoy me now though.

Sorry for whining on. It's just been grating on me. Sad I know :o

AIBU to be upset and think friend is wrong and could be more tactful?

OP posts:
meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 15:23

It is extreme but my mother who couldn't breast feed got breast cancer, which we all know, and she knows, BFing helps to reduce the risk of.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2010 15:23

What I mean by her intentions are good is that she is trying to counter decades of bf myths, without listening to how the words are coming out at the other end

StarlightMcKenzie · 17/09/2010 15:25

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StarlightMcKenzie · 17/09/2010 15:26

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mamatomany · 17/09/2010 15:26

It sounds like her intentions are good but her words aren't.

Well we have enough HPC with foot in mouth disease without needing volunteers too.

mamatomany · 17/09/2010 15:27

I mean Health care professionals doh

StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2010 15:31

oh i completely agree
there's a fine line to be drawn between being sympathetic and understanding the realities of the situation and refusing to propagate common myths. She's not drawing it!

knitpicker · 17/09/2010 15:33

Your friend sounds like a crap counsellor, all evangelical and so no help to someone experiencing problems.

I have 3 dcs and fed the first for 7mths, 2nd for 14mths and the third for 2yrs. The first was so painful that I had to use a plastic shield for the entire time. Would have loved advice from someone - luckily had supportive, non-judgemental mother and baby group.

Meltedchocolate - A baby will feed all day long and still be hungry if you are not getting enough protein in your diet. You need lamb chops at lunchtime!

pigletmania · 17/09/2010 15:34

YANBU does not sound like she would be a very good bf counsellor, she will be upsetting a lot of vulnerable women and making it worse for them.

pigletmania · 17/09/2010 15:35

I would tell my friend straight if i were you.

StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2010 15:37

agree with piglet actually it could be the most valuable feedback she gets, though she may not thank you

meltedchocolate · 17/09/2010 15:41

That's what I said earlier though. I wouldn't feel I could as I don't want to make other friend feel awkward.

OP posts:
ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 17/09/2010 15:42

The vast majority of women (I think figures from Scandinavia suggest 98%) can breastfeed with appropriate support. That doesn't mean that it's her business to tell them that they should.

But, on the other hand, plenty of women say that they "couldn't" breastfeed because their they weren't producing enough milk/their milk wasn't good enough quality. These conditions are real but they are very unusual and they certainly don't occur with anything like the regularity that gets reported. Far more usually a nervous breastfeeding mother who has nothing wrong with her milk or her supply and is experiencing a normal breastfeeding pattern (such as the baby having a growth spurt and feeding round the clock for a week or two) is convinced by family or friends (or, almost unforgivably, HCPs) that there is a problem and is in no state to stick to her guns without good-quality support, which is hard to come by. And then because they say that they "couldn't" breastfeed the general perception shifts to be that that's common, and in that climate it's harder for the next woman to realise that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with her milk or her supply. Something needs to be done to redress the balance, but your friend is clearly being offputting and/or inappropriate in the way she approaches it.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 17/09/2010 15:45

(one thing she will learn on proper BF counsellor training, BTW, is to tone down her approach on this, listen more and lecture less. So that's a good thing.)

Neavesy · 17/09/2010 15:48

Whitethorn when my mum was born my nan couldn't feed her to start with so my grandad put butter and sugar in a piece of muslin for her to suck. Fortunately Nan was able to feed her eventually. Expect there was a lot of that went on pre-formula, with predictable results.

meltedchoc it strikes me your mate thinks she's the Breastfeeding Inspector not a Breastfeeding Counsellor.

giveitago · 17/09/2010 15:53

YANBU and I hope this friend finds that she can get every single mummy she comes across to BF.

I really wanted to but abandanoned after about 6 weeks. DS was crap - I was crap and in huge pain after cs and having 30GG very old tits meant I couldn't do it in public. I used lots of BF help - but it didn't help. IN the end mil came over at 4 weeks and put a stop to any efforts.

But, hey ho - I gave it my best shot - ds is fine - I'm fine etc.

I'm not a fan of bf help - la leche league was particularly bad if I remember correctly.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 17/09/2010 16:00

I am so glad that your friend didn't have anything to do with me when I was struggling to feed the dses - I was depressed enough as it was, I dread to think what would have happened if I'd come up against such judgementalism!

Ds1 had neonatal jaundice, and was in an incubator, under UV lights for days - and because his jaundice got worse not better after the first day or so, I was told he needed more fluids and I should supplement with a bottle. In hindsight, there might have been something else I could have done, but ther was no-one to suggest any other strategies. I couldn't have him on the breast all the time, because he needed the UV light treatment.

By the time we left hospital, my milk supply was almost non-existant, so I hired an NCT breast pump and pumped after every feed, for at least half an hour. On the first day of this, I expressed 4.5ml of milk. A week later, my entire day's output on day 7 was (drum roll) 4.5ml! At that point, I gave up and put ds1 fully on the bottle.

When ds2 was born, I was so determined to make breast feeding work, and he fed constantly - but despite this, at 6 weeks old, he had still not regained the 10oz he had lost from his birthweight, and during this time, the HV had been getting worried.

She was visiting almost daily, and telling me she wanted the baby to have put on at least an ounce by her next visit (which we never managed). When she raised the possibility of formula, I told her how committed I was to making breastfeeding work, and she told me that she had to think of the best interests of the child!! I told her how furious I was at the implication that I didn't care for my child's best interests, and threw her out of the house.

Then one day, ds2 developed some breathing difficulties, and I called the GP who sent us straight up to the hospital, where ds2 was admitted on IV antibiotics for a chest infection - but their real concern was his weight, not his chest infection - in fact, I heard them describing him as 'Failing To Thrive', which was a horrible thing to hear.

In the end, I started to supplement with formula, and he started to gain weight, and at that point he was allowed home, but I never got breastfeeding re-established, and he ended up fully formula fed. I tried cutting down the number and amount of formula feeds, but when I did, his weightgain slowed or stopped.

With ds3, I mixed fed from a very early stage - I fed him myself all day, and he had a formula feed at bedtime and one in the middle of the night, which gave me a chance for my supply to build up a bit. Again, though, if I tried to cut down on the formula feeds, he stopped gaining weight.

At least I managed to go on feeding him for nthree months, which was better than I managed with either of the others.

Each time, though, I felt like a total failure because I couldn't breastfeed - friends with babies of similar ages seemed to have no problems, and their babies thrived, so why couldn't I?

I had postnatal depression after each ds was born. I did have a tendency to depression already, but I am sure that my feelings of failure contributed to my having PND three times. I am pretty sure that I would have been even worse if I had had someone with views like your friend counselling me.

In fact, I hope that you will show this thread to your friend, so that she can see how much damage she can do by careless words. I would love to have a chance to tell her directly how careful she should be when dealing with women at an emotional and sometimes stressful time of their lives.

prettyfly1 · 17/09/2010 16:17

most women can but not all babies can - your friend needs to be told that in no uncertain terms. Mine had SERIOUS tongue tie and needed to have his tongue snipped then healed to breastfeed. This was discovered after a week of hell, rapid weight loss for my baby and mastitis that hospitalised me it was so severe. I was DEVASTATED and felt like a failure - your friend needs to sort her act out if she wants to councel anyone.

Manda25 · 17/09/2010 16:18

I have never wanted to BF and 'luckily' for me I have to inject medication during and after pregnancy which means i am not allowed to... I had some smartarse BF'ing 'counsellor' harping on about BF'ing while in hospital - she wouldn't let me get a word in!! ...I was cross that i felt the need to explain myself ...and felt very cross for the poor mums who desperately wanted to BF but couldn't.

They shouldn't be allowed to approach someone unless their advice is asked for !!

MoonUnitAlpha · 17/09/2010 16:19

"But, on the other hand, plenty of women say that they "couldn't" breastfeed because their they weren't producing enough milk/their milk wasn't good enough quality. These conditions are real but they are very unusual and they certainly don't occur with anything like the regularity that gets reported. Far more usually a nervous breastfeeding mother who has nothing wrong with her milk or her supply and is experiencing a normal breastfeeding pattern (such as the baby having a growth spurt and feeding round the clock for a week or two) is convinced by family or friends (or, almost unforgivably, HCPs) that there is a problem and is in no state to stick to her guns without good-quality support, which is hard to come by. And then because they say that they "couldn't" breastfeed the general perception shifts to be that that's common, and in that climate it's harder for the next woman to realise that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with her milk or her supply. Something needs to be done to redress the balance, but your friend is clearly being offputting and/or inappropriate in the way she approaches it."

Good post.

FrameyMcFrame · 17/09/2010 16:24

Some people have an easy time of breast feeding. They don't find it painful, their babies latch on easily, they don't have supply issues etc.

Some of these people think that this then qualifies them to lecture others who have found bf more challenging.

Actually it's this type that would make the worst bf councellor as they don't understand what it's like when bf isn't easy.

omnishambles · 17/09/2010 16:24

ProfessorLayton you beat me to it - thats what I was going to say - the vast majority can with the proper support and inclination and perseverance. But your friend sounds as if she has a long way to go in the empathy dept.

Oh and I dont believe that thing about the protein whoever said that.

Again · 17/09/2010 16:26

Something like 1% of women cannot medically breastfeed. The numbers that don't are far higher. However I would never assume to know whether a person can or cannot breastfeed. I had a c-section because natural birthing didn't work for me. These are aspirations but when it doesn't work out it's not a failure.

chipmonkey · 17/09/2010 16:35

melted, while I think your friend may actually have a point, in that, it does sound to me as if bfing was actually not going as badly for you as you thought, I think her attitude is very unhelpful and that if I were a new mum who had struggled with bfing, I would be very inclined to close the curtains and lie low if I say her walking up my driveway!Grin

Most women if properly supported can feed most babies BUT...

There will be mothers with hypoplastic breasts
There will be exhausted and/or depressed mothers
There will be intefering grannies
There will be babies with tongue tie
There will be babies with SN's, sometimes undiagnosed
There will be unsupportive dps
There will be thrush, mastitis and cracked nipples

And so on and so on.

And if it fails, there is no point in the world in blaming the mother who already feels bad enough about the situation.

Spero · 17/09/2010 16:36

Is your friend Giselle?

Could you tell her, that it is attitudes like hers that stopped me breastfeeding. There probably wasn't any medical reason I found it hard, but it was painful, my nipples bled, I was bloody miserable and what did the midwife say ' you SHALL breastfeed', not 'o you are doing really well, keep it up the first few weeks are tough'

So I gave up, mainly to stick two fingers up at midwife.

The kinds of attitudes don't help in the slightest. For every woman she 'counsels' she will probably drive another ten to tears and giving up. I hope she learns a bit of humility if she genuinely wants to help people.