to think that NO, not every woman can breastfeed!

[meltedchocolate]

OK basically a friend loves BFing. Great. I am happy. It is a wonderful thing indeed! So much so that she wants to be a BFing counsellor and is going to start training. Lovely. Glad she is doing something she wants to. Now though she seems to think she knows all there is to know about BFing and is driving me nuts with it. Basically she thinks that EVERY woman can BF and there is no reason why someone couldn't and is totally unsympathetic to anyone not BFing.

I BFed my son til he was 6 weeks old. I stopped then because I couldn't keep up. He was a 9 lb baby and was huge by that point. I was exhausted and wasn't eating well and my boobs had shrunk back to an A cup while I was still BFing. I was constantly leaking and was swapping my tops several times a day. I would soak my t shirt in half an hour if I didn't swap pads every ten mins or so. When he wanted to feed I could BF for an hour and he would still be very hungry after so I had to give in and give him a bottle. (this started around 4-5 weeks) I was so so upset. I cried about it a lot. Two years down the line and she still makes me feel like it was my fault and that I could have done things differently, and would have suceeded. Despite the fact that we started brilliantly, had no problem latching and was very successful for the first 4 weeks.

I told her about my mother who tried in vain and desperately to BF all three of her children and was eventually told to stop trying. She had very flat nipples and none of the things to help this problem were working. Despite her best efforts none of us would ever latch. Friend basically said mum was wrong and she could have BFed.... My mother has always been upset she never got to do this. I feel very defensive of her.

I should say that we fell out nearly a year ago and have put it behind us now and that the falling out was mostly my fault, though I have appologised on many occassions now. I think she is doing/ saying these things on purpose to annoy me now though.

Sorry for whining on. It's just been grating on me. Sad I know :o

AIBU to be upset and think friend is wrong and could be more tactful?

Well most women can breastfeed IF the they have the right support. Good for her that she is going to be a BF supporter.

But some women can't fed. Whilst many problems like latch/flat nipples can be solved other problems can't be like some types of breast surgery and breast deformalities.

Also some women find BFing much harder than others, perhaps as feeds take ages and the baby doesn't seem satisfied, and its exhausting and ultimately its every women's right to choose how she feeds her baby. So your friend could perhaps be a bit more tactful especially knowing what you went through.

Unfortunatley there appears to be many things that only people with a "perfect experience" want to get into....people who found bf-ing a complete and utter breeze train to be bf-ing counsellors because they have got so much out of it....very few women who have struggled through or tried and failed train...inf fact as far as I'm aware one of the conditions of training with the NCT to be a breast feeding counsellor is that you have to have breastfed for an extended period of time...so no-one that has tried and failed can become a counsellor.

Same with things like Ante Natal teaching etc - homebirths, waterbirths, difficulties overcome at the first hurdle using aromatherapy and massage...so while through their training they might intellectually learn about problems and difficulties and ideas not as perfect as their own, its unlikely they'll ever empathise fully or ever get over the hurdle that "every woman can do it" which really just means "I was lucky".

Lets face it, if all women could breastfeed, if all women could give birth naturally if they all just concentrated and tried a bit harder, then the infant mortality rate throughout history and in the modern developing world wouldn't be as high as it is and has been. The high amounts of women who have in the past died in childbirth, or babies who have died at birth, or babies who have failed to thrive and have died are proof enough that NOT "every woman can do it".

I like chipmonkey's "there will be...." post.

I don't think it would be mostly mothers who found it a "perfect experience" going on to become counsellors.
I think it's more that it's women who have struggled and come out the other side with a 'well I've been through that pain/discomfort/exhaustion - if I can do it anyone can'.

Completely agree with Manda... bf counsellors are very important to have and can be very useful, to people who actually want their help and opinions and seek it out!

A good friend of mine has been through hell and back with her dd. she was born at 29 weeks and spent two months in hospital, throughout which my friend tirelessly expressed every two hours to provide food for dd and keep up her supply. She was exhausted, in pain and has a 2 yr old ds to look after, so decided, after 8 weeks to start with formula, just to take some of the pressure from her. She was happy with the decision, but it took her two weeks to call the bf counsellor she had had to return the breast pump. Do you know why? Because she was sooo worried that the counsellor was so judgemental and that she would be 'told off' for not carrying on.

Surely it's possible to be supportive and helpful, without coming across as judgemental and holier than thou?

The NCT has a lot to answer for here, IMO.
My antenatal teacher insisted that every woman could breastfeed. Of the 5 women in our antenatal group, only two of us managed to breastfeed successfully. The other three encountered various problems which made it impossible for them to continue. Their guilt and anxiety over their 'failure' was saddening - and unnecessary.

More recently, my 3 week old niece was admitted to hospital with dehydration. She was being breastfed and my SIL had been supported by bf counsellor and health visitor, however DN was constantly crying. Now bottlefed and thriving and my brother and SIL are relieved to have a healthy baby.

I breastfed both my children for 10/11 mths and I just feel amazingly lucky that it worked out for us. Obviously it's something you both need to 'learn' but definitely not to be taken for granted

Starlight - I'm very involved in the NCt and, in my experience, that really is the case...

There are lots of 'good' things that people don't do and bf is only one.Some people just don't want to and some cannot for various reasons.Plenty of people feed their kids crap and know it is yet still do it and love their kids to bits.It is only on MN that this is discussed ad infinitum amongst my friends there was a mix for many and varied reasons and we never quizzed or judged each other at all.

Op's friend does sound a bit evangelical. but I actually think she has a point. Nearly all women can breastfeed. obviously some literally can't. but they are few and far between. some find it harder than others and thus need more support.
but there are infact quite few reasons as to why someone CAN'T breastfeed. you may choose not to. or it may just be too much for you. but both of those are actually different to CAN'T.

YANBU! not at all! I did not BF my first baby because I had NO breastmilk...not a jot! For some reason people always say "Oh no..you just had a bad midwife/health visitor" when in fact they were wonderful...there was no milk in the dairy. Full stop.

YABU, your friend sounds passionate about helping women BF, and she's right - nearly all women can. A small percentage of women truly can't, while a much larger percentage simply feel they can't, or don't entirely want to and are happy to find an excuse not to.

Frankly I think I tried way too hard to make it work (sending my son from 50th centile to 9th centile until he was on solids and shot back up above 50th) but I'm still glad for the support I had of people encouraging me and proving it was possible, if not a rousing success.

I have been reduced to tears by a friend who used to be a bf counsellor who when she found out I was combined feeding - because i smply could not keep up with my baby wrote me an e-mail telling me how disappointed she was with me.

In the end, i gave up at 8 weeks. i quite simply ran out of milk, and the baby was getting nothing but blood.

YANBU

yanbu

BUT , why oh why are women not warned about the heliish first few days with only measly colustrum? noone warns women. so they suffer, have hungry baby, think they cant produce milk and then FF

my bet would be that a vast amounbt of women give up cos of colustrum HELL

Ds gone to school for first time this week, add to this I have worked 2 late nights on the trot.. 5 hours sleep last night, oh and psychotic ex GF of 'im indoors' has reared her ugly head again and is threatening me, and saying she is coming back to London to claim her man...

All of the above will hopefully mitigate my post of advice as to what you should do... I am usually fairly to the point, but not often that blunt, but this one is...

Here goes...

Tell her to "FUCK OFF"..

YANBU too, I had to give up at 3 weeks, milk literally did not turn up!

My DS is HUGE, tallest in his class, and will probably outgrow his dad, I wouldn't be surprised....

HTH!

Thanks for all your feed back. Perhaps my friend was right about my situation. I will never know now. My compla

int was her sensitivity, or lack of. Just because only few women actually can't doesn't mean we should assume anyone we come across claiming this is wrong and is one of the many that can. I genuinely tried. I hate feeling that someone thinks I am wrong and could have done better had I tried harder.

The joke is that friend struggled for a few days with her first and felt like a failure. She should understand that feeling and be sympathetic.

Like some of you said, hopefully she will learn how to deal with people when she trains. Also agree that they shouldn't be allowed input unless asked.

Anyway, I will try to let my upset go.

Can you tell her how much she has upset you, and how much she would upset people like me who really struggled with breastfeeding, and feel like total failures because they didn't breastfeed, if she carries on with that attitude, meltedchocolate?

Or print out this thread, and point out some of the posts full of pain and regret from people like me, and ask her if she thinks it is a breastfeeding counsellor's job to add to that pain.

i failed to bf ds1.
i am successfully bfing ds2 and am passionate about it. i have managed thanks to mn and the breastfeeding network.
i would love to train to help other women like myself who were let down first time by mws, etc who merely preach but give no back-up.

noone has judged me for ffing ds1 except me!

very few women cannot physiologically bf.
BUT
many women are prevennted from bfing by lack of help and support both in learning how to do it and in practical ways - help with older kids, provision of care for mother in post-natal period, etc.

oh and op, your friend was being an arse.

fwiw all the counsellors i have seen have been fab

SDTG - sorry to hear of your awful awful time btw.

Thing is I really don't think she is overly aware. I don't want to tell her cos I'm a wuss I don't want to cause upset.

Thanks LittleMIss DS is also crazy tall. She said her daughter very tall for her age when measured by HV at 2 year meet but my DS (so nearly two) is taller than her daughter is now (5 months younger than her)

Perhaps I could have carried on with some help and support but I thought something had gone wrong because it was so SUDDEN and we had been so incredibly successful before that and I had been confident and happy and it seemed DS had been too. :(

Ask her what she would do for a woman who was groaning and gasping with pain the whole time; so much so that someone else had to hold the baby to the breast while she dug her fingernails into her palms (cutting her skin) with tears pouring down her face.

I would genuinely like to know, actually.

Your friend does sound painful but it may be because she has just started the course.
I'm a HP (eeek) and we laugh about how newly qualified HPs are always brimming with enthusiasm...that soon changes!
She may well calm down as she progresses through the course. If not she may cause more harm than good.

However, you did mention that after a few weeks your breasts no longer felt full. I think your friend may have jumped on that point as a lot of people worry about this.
It does just mean that your supply is meeting demand- not over it- so you don't leak anymore.
I worried about the same thing but luckily it was discussed with my NCT group who had babies of about the same age. A few of us had been wondering why our breasts were shrinking and could reassure each other.

Last week at the weighing clinic I heard a lady with a young baby asking why her breasts were no longer full and worrying that she didn't have enough milk. The HV did nothing to reassure her, didn't say it was normal and just said feed more often. The poor lady was asking about taking supplements etc, and I had to bite my tongue as she was getting such crap advice.

Anyway, I digress, I think you should be honest to your friend about how she makes you feel and hopefully she can go on to be better in her role.

"c/section breastfeeding failures"

What a lovely turn of phrase starlight, glad you've managed to convince us of the sensitive attitude of the NCT with that post.

OP YANBU - send your friend to fearlessformulafeeder.blogspot.com/ and get her to read the posts from each Friday - every one a harrowing tale about BF problems.

But she is upsetting YOU!! just by being thoughtless. Say something like, it's not always as straightforward as you think, and not wishing to offend her or anything, but that she really has no idea and you'd prefer to cahnge the subject.

Sure it'll be an uncomfortable silence for a moment, but just refuse to discuss it.

don't beat yourself up, the main priority is to raise a happy, healthy, contented child. which you are doing.

To those of you who have used the word FAILED, Why blame yourself for it? Some of us have painful periods for example, some of us have spots, wear glasses, it's just part of what we are.

No two births are the same. no 2 babies are the same. It is just a collection of circumstances that conspire to create the experience. My DS broke the waters then did nothing. Had to have the jab to get the contractions going, and eventually out he came. My body wasn't ready for him. Not my fault at all. Nothing I could have done about it. The worst thing I could have done would be to have denied him nutrition for another day, I really wanted to BF, but it wasn't meant to be.

We beat ourselves up for way too much, when really there is so little that we can do about any of it.

The milk stage is such a small part of the DCs lives when you place the whole child's life into context. Focus on the contentment, growth and development, not what you have to do to get there.

massive hugs for anyone that is feeling to blame, you are not!