to be worried about this consent form?

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

DD (12) has brought home the NHS Consent form for the HPV Immunisation for Year 8s.

We have decided, in a discussion involving me, DD and DH, that we do not want her to have the vaccine.

However, I am upset that the form says : (quote) Please note that while your consent is important, if you refuse consent the vaccination may still be given

It also says, 'Reason consent refused (PTO for additional space to give us your reason for your decision' - do I really have to give details?

AIBU to feel concerned?

Hmm, seems as though the age of consent is a grey area reading here, although they say "If a parent refuses to give consent to a particular treatment, this decision can be overruled by the courts if treatment is thought to be in the best interests of the child". Not overruled by some zealous nurses with shiney leaflets .

I know that we used not to vaccinate boys against rubella, and I think you're almost certainly right about the actual rationale. But officially the line is that all three components are very important (single vaccinations are officially discouraged partly on the grounds that the child will be left unvaccinated against whatever the last injection to be given is (which would surely be rubella for boys and mumps for girls) for a period). So why is the official line different here?

Highland my understanding is they both do the same job but the MSD one goes the extra mile.

Both protect against HPV 16 and 18 which is though to protect against 70% of cervical cancers.

Gardasil protects against these and two others - one being genital wart virus.

Well then light if you have had full and frank discussions with your dd taking on board the relevant information she will be fully informed, won't she. She will have all the information about the disadvantages and so on and, therefore, will be able to make a proper and informed, intelligent decision on the day. Return the form with a "no", fill in your reasons for that decision and sit back and relax knowing that you have done the best you possibly can to educate your child.

In the end, if she decides to go ahead and have the jab how can you really object? It is her life, her body and her risk. Any arguments about lack of info are null and void as you have already told us you have given her the info and discussed it at length.

"But that my decision could be over-ridden by hers for example, if she changes her mind on the day".

But you said earlier that the reason you wouldn't give your consent is that your dd isn't capale of making this decision. Surely the above indicates that she is?

Heathen

We all felt faint after our BCG and rubella vaccines. Because we were utterly susceptible to hysteria. The top trumps would have been to actually faint. Which of course none of did.

mamatomany surely a vaccination programme that (in time) obviates the need for screening is a Good Thing?

At the age of 12 most children will be strongly influenced by their parent's views. I am uncomfortable with parents being able to opt out of a life saving vaccine for their children when at the age of maturity it will be too late for them to have the vaccine.

I saw the OP of AIBU as more about can a 12 year old over rule her parents decision than the vaccination issue.
At what age is a child deemed to have responsibility for themselves because on the one hand we are told by the NSPCC that children under the age of 12 shouldn't be left alone but 12 year olds are able to make informed decisions about their long term health.

"if you were misinformed like MMR for example"

How were you mis-informed about MMR?

" But officially the line is that all three components are very important (single vaccinations are officially discouraged partly on the grounds that the child will be left unvaccinated against whatever the last injection to be given is "

Herd immunity is nice to have, and given MMR is both safe and effective and cheap you might as well. And no vaccine is 100% effective, so avoiding pregnant women being expose to rubella, even if they have been vaccinated, is a good idea. The difference, I suspect, is that the herd immunity alone would justify the cost of MMR if, say, it was more expensive and had to be given in three doses. But given it's cheaper than single vaccinations and at least as effective and more likely to be completed and lowers the risk of para-vaccination risks like infection and allergy and embolisms, the herd immunity is a nice bonus.

My theory is that the real sticking point for vaccinations is the sticking point: the needles. In the days of oral polio vaccine no-one worried about it apart from the insane (see here for McCarthy-ite nonsense) whereas now vaccinations given by injection awake all sorts of atavistic fears.

Op, Clar.beansmum has given a good reason to refuse. I only hope that yours is not based on a whim or futile hope that your dd will remain a virgin and marry a virgin.

There aren't really any sensible reasons for not having the vaccination, so I really wouldn't worry if your DD changes her mind OP. She's clearly capable of independant thought, you should be proud of that.

I'm not sure I buy your privacy reasons for not sharing your thought process on this. My guess is you have arbitrary reasons for denying your DD the vaccination and you don't want to admit it. Which is fine, by the way, but I'm a bit that you really genuinely believe a 12-year-old can make a decision for herself and that if she feels strongly about it, her thinking shouldn't override yours (or at least give cause for second thoughts). Sorry, JMO.

When you say you've talked it through with her, have you honestly done this? Or were you giving her your reasons for not wanting it? Maybe to be sure you all know how you all feel you should sit down and have a frank discussion where your DD is given all the information.

If your DD changed her mind and really wanted it, would you punish her for this?

TBH I appreciate the OP's concerns wrt the wording of the form, but I don't think she has anything to worry about.

I do think that a girl of 12 or 13 should be allowed to override her parents' objections, particularly if she can demonstrate that she understannds what she's doing.

I used to work for the NHS in media relations and the issues that used to come up are that people saw the HPV vaccine as somehow instrinsically linked to sexual activity. Some parents were against their daughter being vaccinated for what they saw as moral or ethical reasons, that somehow the vaccine will encourage their child to have sex or be promiscuous.

Fact: The HPV vaccine will not make or encourage your daughter to have sex.
Fact: The HPV vaccine is likely to protect your daughter from cervical cancer.
Fact: The HPV vaccine is only effective up to the age of around
Fact: Cervical cancer is the second most common cancer in women. The virus causes 99% of all cases of invasive cervical cancer. The vaccination immunises against virus sub types 16 and 18 which are responsible for about 70% of these cases. The vaccination course consists of three injections given over a six months period.

Fact: Around 3000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer each year in the UK, with more than a third of those dying from the disease.

Sorry, can't make a decision, not can.

Oh, and it's most effective around the age of 12 -14, hence only being offered up to the age of 18, depending on which area you live in.

Bramshott - thank you.

Children who are under 16 years old can consent to their own treatment if it is thought that they have enough intelligence, competence and understanding to fully appreciate what is involved in their treatment.

I do not believe this applies to my DD - I don't think she does have enough intelligence, competence and understanding to fully appreciate what is involved.

Some parents on MN have decided to have the vaccine and others have decided not to. If we as adults are undecided about the evidence for and against, how are 12-year olds expected to decide?

So may I ask Comtessa - why did the NHS opt for a less effective vaccine that at the time not even the US drugs agency has approved?

This is outside of your reasons for denying the vaccine OP, so I feel comfortable asking you this. Why do you feel your DD doesn't have "enough intelligence, competence and understanding" to get it?

*jenai) - Re the vaccine obviating the need for screening - it won't. It only protects against some forms of cervical cancer - not all of them. Screening will have to continue. Of course that then begs two questions - will people still go for screening? and If hte number of cancers detected through screening falls dramatically will there still be political and financial support for the screening programme?

And on that basis, would you be likely to change your mind in a year or so? When your DD was 13 or 14?

claricebeansmum please could you outline how to go about getting the vaccine privately and what the associated costs are?

Oh dear, op. I feel sorry for your poor dd. I just hope she will feel able to speak to you about contraceptive advice when she decides to become sexually active.

but light - if YOU have the intelligence, competence and understanding, why aren't YOU consenting for her?????? In the case of HPV I think the vast majority of adults ARE decided about the evidence for and against???

I am very grateful for the herd immunity aspect of MMR. I've had all my MMR jabs, had it boosted multiple times, including starting at medical school a couple of years ago, and should be immune.

However, when I had my first bloods done at booking-in, it turned out that I was not immune to rubella, and I am one of a small percentage of people that it does not immunise. Up until 5 months pregnant I was working in a primary school, with no option to be immunised, and I was extremely relieved by the thought that hopefully a lot of those children would have been.

It's not always as simple as just "immunise those at risk". I agree completely with the GP who paid for his son to have it. I hate the thought that much later in life my son could inadvertently pass on one of these HPV strands to a girl whose parents had refused consent for her.