to be worried about this consent form?

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

DD (12) has brought home the NHS Consent form for the HPV Immunisation for Year 8s.

We have decided, in a discussion involving me, DD and DH, that we do not want her to have the vaccine.

However, I am upset that the form says : (quote) Please note that while your consent is important, if you refuse consent the vaccination may still be given

It also says, 'Reason consent refused (PTO for additional space to give us your reason for your decision' - do I really have to give details?

AIBU to feel concerned?

I really don't see any "medical, ethical or moral" issues at all- I know that there was a safety scare where a poor girl died, but it was found at the inquest that the vaccine did not cause the death.

Protection against disease= good in my book. In fact, refusing the vaccine would be much more of a moral issue to me.

In 4 years she will be legally able to have sex, and then the ship may have sailed, so to speak. How old does she need to be to make this decision? 13? 14? 16? 18?

Are you religious, by any chance?

longtailjosie- I agree, boys should get it too. I've never heard a reasoned explanation (apart from cost) why they dont.

I think 12 probably is too young to consent to medical treatment, in most cases. If after a thorough assessment of the child's capacity they are deemed mature enough then fine. But this isn't going to happen is it?

If something does go wrong, it will be the parent who will be left to pick up the pieces.

If you feel strongly just dont send her to school that day.

Moral and ethical reasons shouldn't come into this issue at all. Giving them or not giving them a vaccine against a killer disease has no bearing on how sexually active people will become and when. Giving the vaccine is not about to create a whole raft of sexually active 12 year olds.

My sister has only ever had 1 sexual partner - her husband She got cervical cancer 5 years ago and had to have a full hysterectomy. She is now unable to have any children, but she is alive and has recently been given the all clear. She would have loved the chance to have had a vaccine against this terrible disease when she was younger.

I still don't understand your reasons for withholding consent??

Nordic, if she does not respond properly then they can go ahead, leaving it blank because of what you think should be right is foolish and self-defeating.

I would be surprised if they don't pressurize her into having it to be honest, all they need is for your DD to nod on the day having been given an earful from the nurse and teacher about all the other girls having it and her silly parents stopping her from being like everyone else and she'll be vaccinated.
If you are adament she doesn't have it then keep her off that day.
I didn't have my TB because we decided as a family I wasn't at risk from it and it was un necessary and now they have phrased it out but at the time there was a right fuss about me being the only one not to have it.

I don't understand why you won't let your daughter have this vaccination? By leaving it til she's older you run the risk that it won't be effective as she may have started having sex by then. What do you think are the implications of this vaccine which your daughter can't understand?

Explain the moral and ethical dimensions to me please someone?

"To give some context, one of her geography homework questions this week was to find out the name of the longest river in Britain."

Good heavens, that seems a very low level of ambition for a 12yo! At dd's schools a geogphrapy question at this stage would have been something like pick 3 environmental disasters (no list supplied) and analyse the reasons behind them. All the homework in Yr 7 (ordinary state school) was about analysing and discussing reasons for things. Simple fact finding sounds more like junior school. Doesn't she get bored?

I would certainly expect my own children of this age to be able to take on board and discuss the pros and cons of vaccination if presented in a straightforward manner, on a website (or even by a parent, ion an objective fashion). I would not expect them to make up their minds without my input, but I wouldn't make a major decision about the family without their input either. Ime 12yos are constantly thinking about the rights and wrongs of things and wanting to discuss them.

I don't understand why you think that in Year 8 she's not mature enough to understand the form or the vaccine. Year 8 girls are able to have sex you know.

Why boys don't get the vaccine-

Vaccines cost an awful, awful lot of money. Women are the only ones who may become ill as a result of hpv. Ergo, only women get the vaccine.

mamatomany - am that you think teachers or nurses would somehow try to embarass a girl into having this vaccination. There is no way that a HV or other health professional would try to coerce a child into having a procedure which their parent had not given consent to!

I've mentioned it already, but I don't remember any such hoo haa over the rubella vaccine we were given as 13yos in the 1980s.

lal123 - you're kidding right ? I recently took DS for his vaccinations and they implied I was a silly lady for even wanting information. I have no doubt whatsoever the nurse will make this girl feel different at least for not having it.
Lots of children were held down for their TB and Rubella jabs at our school, we were year 8 and many of certainly were not consenting very loudly

Tbh, if parents think that this vaccine is going to create girls who are sexually active at a younger age then they need to reeducate themselves. There are lots of nasty, incurable stds one can contract, this vaccine prevents only one. It does not circumvent the need to be careful about who you sleep with and what precautions are used.

My dd's group were given the information leaflet, a chance to read it through and then invited to discuss any concerns they had before making the decision on the day. My understanding was there were about 5 parents who refused consent, all the girls decided to go ahead though. My own dd was expecting her dad to object strongly so she intended to withhold the form and self-consent but didn't need to in the end (dad was not comfortable but realised his hang-ups should not affect dds health). 12 is plenty old enough to make an informed decision about their own bodies. There are few/no contra-indications for this injection and very few side-effects.

Think of all those who refused MMR as a result of Andrew Wakefield- nurses are pretty tired of pandering to parents who panic over what is actually a life saving vaccine.

With regards to holding girls down for rubella in the 80's- iirc young teenage girls are not the most reasonable and cooperative when it comes to vaccines. Lots at my school were downright shrieky and hysterical.

Mama - no I'm not kidding! I think there is a difference between the HPV vaccination and other vaccinations as HPV vac. programme is not attempting to create herd immunity - therefore it really doesn't matter to society at large whether or not an individual girl gets it.

With the children who were "held down" - had their parents consented? I cannot imagine a situation where a girl would be held down and forced to have an immunisation against her and her parents will.

Thanks everyone.
I think where we differ is that I am not comfortable that my DD can actually make an informed choice about the vaccine, as she will not be presented at school with any disadvantages or reasons why she should not have it.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/HPV-vaccination/Pages/Side-effects.aspx

There are always side effects, it's just a case of weighing up the risks.
Just as a final point there was another vaccine developed at the same time as this one which was said to be more effective, made by Merck, Sharp and Dhome, this one made by GKS was chosen because it was cheaper and the reason they are so keen for everyone to have it is so that they can phase out screening.
Is vaccination cheaper, definitely, is it as effective, who knows.

Sally - agree re the shrieky and hysterical girls thing! I was involved in HPV immunisation programme for older girls. As soon as one girl mentioned she was scared/felt faint etc there was almost a ripple of terror/faintness through the rest of the line (and this was 18 year olds!)

So what are the disadvantages/reasons she should not have it? In your opinion? You are being very coy about your reasons not to go ahead...do you feel that having this vacine will increase the liklihood of your dd being promiscuous (sp?) or enter into early intercourse?

why is it the school's job to provide her with info about the vaccine? Isn't that your job as a parent? Or even to be encouraging her to find out about it herself?

There is no way the school should be giving her a vaccination without your permission. They don't know her medical history for a start. Not to mention they are not her parents - it is not their decision to make.

Schools are there to educate, not weigh, measure & make decisions re vaccinating our children - it's mad.

I would write all over it in RED that she is NOT to be given this vaccine and I would tell DD that she is not, under any circumstances, to allow them to do it and that you will not allow her to be punished in any way for not co-operating. I would then ring the school and speak to the Head.

As you may have noticed - I would be LIVID! if you refuse consent the vaccination may still be given - at 12 years old, she is not old enough to choose for herself and if YOU THE PARENT say 'No' that should be the end of it.

Bloody schools are getting well above themselves.

Lightshines - but are YOU in a position to be able to give informed consent??? What additional information would you or your daughter need?

Sorry, my last post is directed to lightshines