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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be worried about this consent form?

542 replies

LightShinesInTheDarkness · 15/09/2010 10:07

DD (12) has brought home the NHS Consent form for the HPV Immunisation for Year 8s.

We have decided, in a discussion involving me, DD and DH, that we do not want her to have the vaccine.

However, I am upset that the form says : (quote) Please note that while your consent is important, if you refuse consent the vaccination may still be given

It also says, 'Reason consent refused (PTO for additional space to give us your reason for your decision' - do I really have to give details?

AIBU to feel concerned?

OP posts:
mamatomany · 15/09/2010 11:12

lal123 - yes their parents had consented i am not suggesting that would happen these days at all, i hope those days are over.

lal123 · 15/09/2010 11:14

Chipping - sorry but that's nonsense! At 12 a girl MAY be old enough to give consent. Also - this is not the "schools getting well above themselves" - it's an NHS programme which works with schools as thats the only practical way of getting the vaccinations to girls. Its not as if its the bloody teachers giving it!!

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 11:15

OP - you talk about the moral and ethical reasons for not giving the vaccine - what do you consider those issues to be ?

foreverastudent · 15/09/2010 11:15

lal123- I refused to have the measles jab when I was a teenager at school. It was a one-off rather than a routine vaccination because there was a threat of an outbreak.
My parents begrudgingly agreed to stop me from just skipping school.
Nevertheless I was really pressurised into having it by the nurses- they were quite mean to me about it. I refused but could see how someone else could easily have given in.

They have their targets to meet and it looks bad for them if all the girls dont get it.

Casserole · 15/09/2010 11:16

Light please could you answer my question above - have you then refused all vaccinations on this basis? Otherwise I'm not understanding your thinking on singling out this particular one.

Here is the NHS Choices section on the HPV vaccination. Surely you can read this through with your daughter yourself? Then she WIL be in a position to give informed consent or otherwise.

minipie · 15/09/2010 11:16

Light that doesn't really make sense as a reason. Presumably she had other vaccines/ medical treatments when she was younger, before she was able to make an informed decision? In those instances you made the decision for her. Why can't you make this decision for her this time, since you think she's still not old enough to make it herself?

BellasFormerFriend · 15/09/2010 11:16

Chippingin, it is the NHS doing this but at the school, it is not the school who will do it anyway but the nhs nurse at the school.

As for "just say no, that should be the end of it" rightly or wrongly it won't.

I keep making this point because I feel it is really important, the Op needs to realise that just not consenting will not be enough to stop this happening, if they really object then the need to take action to prevent it. It is easy to decide that you are right and everyone else should fall into line but that will leave the ops dd open to having a vaccine they object to. Regardless of whether I agree with the ops reasons I do feel that telling her just to say no is foolish and misleading, it simply is not that easy!

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 15/09/2010 11:17

lightshines - but presumably, you have discussed with her the "disadvantages or reasons why she should not have it", so she is actually well-informed?

lal123 · 15/09/2010 11:18

Forever - As I said earlier there will be pressure for other vaccinations because of the need for herd immunity.

A few girls not giving consent will not affect targets - HPV vaccination rates have been very high

mamatomany · 15/09/2010 11:19

"nurses are pretty tired of pandering to parents who panic over what is actually a life saving vaccine'

Then nurses should go and get another job, it's their role to educate and answer questions factually, you wouldn't accept any medical treatment yourself without being fully informed, so why should your child be any different if anything it's a bigger responsibility.

At my practice the implication was I should do as i'm told and they don't need to explain which is disgusting IMO, we won't be returning. Luckily I will register elsewhere but a child could slip through the net due to the nurses attitude.

flaime · 15/09/2010 11:20

I wasn't sure I was going to encourage my DDs to have this jab when it first came out and there was so much in the press about possible side effects. Then I had a couple abnormal smears myself and found out what it's like to go through all the treatment and worry that goes with it. Luckily my treatment worked and I have the all clear for the moment but I still have to go back for annual check ups for the next 10 years just in case.

I am now def. going to encourage my DDs to have it as I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone else.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 11:22

"I agree, boys should get it too. I've never heard a reasoned explanation (apart from cost) why they dont."

Because penile cancer isn't as major a risk as cervical cancer. It's a risk, but (a) it's much easier to spot early (b) it's much easier to treat (c) it doesn't metastise as rapidly. Penile cancer is only responsible for about 1 in a 1000 of UK cancer deaths amongst men, cervical cancer is one of the most common causes of cancer amongst women.

There are also ethical issues involved in giving people vaccines which are of very limited benefit to them, on the grounds that they are of benefit to others.

Not all women who are sexually active will have been infected with HPV. It would make more sense to spend money on offering the vaccination to adult women, on the grounds that it might be of benefit, than offering it to boys.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 15/09/2010 11:23

TBH, at the age of 12/13, I would have quite happpily refused my BCG/rubella vax, on the well-researched scientific grounds that they involved, er, having a big needle stuck in your arm.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 15/09/2010 11:25

sallyseton -- "Women are the only ones who may become ill as a result of hpv. Ergo, only women get the vaccine."

But (babies of) pregnant women are the only ones who are threatened by rubella. But we vaccinate everyone as toddlers, twice, because establishing herd immunity is seen as a good thing. Why doesn't the same principle apply?

sixpercenttruejedi · 15/09/2010 11:25

'a child could slip through the net' ???
It's a vaccine that could potentially save her life, the nurses aren't evil predators stalking your children, they're professionals with the childs health being their priority.

Casserole · 15/09/2010 11:26

Lightshines I just looked at some of your older posts to try and understand your point of view, and I was genuinely intrigued to see that in the past you've started several threads about raising awareness of cervical cancer, particularly in very young women, and then (2009) your stance was that "we should do everything in our power to protect our daughters".

You are of course completely entitled to change your views on this or any subject - don't we all? But I'm really interested to know what's changed your mind on this - do you have particular concerns about the vaccine itself?

Bramshott · 15/09/2010 11:26

Personally I am in favour of the vaccination, but I would also be Hmm at that consent form.

What is the age at which children have to sign their own consent forms for operations etc? Surely there is a point when these decisions rest with the parent, and a point when they pass to the child, and I'd be very surprised if it was as young as 12.

Original poster
LightShinesInTheDarkness · 15/09/2010 11:28

Just in response to those who have asked - I completely understand why you want to know, but I do not want to talk about our family reasons for not wanting DD to have the vaccination (suffice to say that, no, this is not a decision based upon our religious preferences or faith).

What has upset me is purely the issue of consent - that we can have discussed the issue at home (which we have - at some length, all 3 of us together, with the aid of leaflets etc) and have come to a joint decsion. But that my decision could be over-ridden by hers for example, if she changes her mind on the day. And suggestions of pressure by nurses on the day don't make me feel any better about that.

OP posts:
claricebeansmum · 15/09/2010 11:28

Well we have just has the letter home yesterday and I have refused consent. Why? Because I have read up on it, taken advice and the vaccine given by the NHS is not as effective as another vaccine that is currently available privately.

The NHS vaccine - Cervarix - was chosen because it was the cheapest and only protects against two strains of HPV whilst an alternative, Gardasil, protects against four - including the virus against genital warts which is the second most common STD (Nursing Times).

As to boys - somewhere I have read of a doctor who has administered the vaccine to his son privately.

I am lucky that I can afford to go privately.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 11:29

"But (babies of) pregnant women are the only ones who are threatened by rubella. But we vaccinate everyone as toddlers, twice, because establishing herd immunity is seen as a good thing. Why doesn't the same principle apply?"

Actually, we didn't used to. Rubella vaccination was done only for women up until quite recently. The main reason for the MMR combination is both logistically and from the point of view of testing and licensing it's better to have one vaccination, which can be monitored for side-effects over a larger population, than to mess about giving boys MM (no need for rubella) and girls MR (mumps is much more of a problem for boys, where it potentially causes sterility).

mamatomany · 15/09/2010 11:29

I understand that six but we as parents still have the right to question treatment and if you were misinformed like MMR for example taking the stance that they don't have to explain and it should just be done could easily mean a parent just refuses the vaccination full stop.

borderslass · 15/09/2010 11:30

We really thought long and hard over it but dd2 was the first year of getting the vaccine and we where concerned about how safe it was but the benefits outweighed the risks so she had them [3 lots]

Highlander · 15/09/2010 11:31

do the GSK and MSD vaccines both immunise against the same strains of HPV?

Do the vaccines immunise against all oncogenic HPV strains?

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 11:32

'But (babies of) pregnant women are the only ones who are threatened by rubella'

Not accurate at all - unborn babies can be affected by congenital rubella syndrome but rubella can also potentially affect any other person who isn't immune.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/Rubella/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Casserole · 15/09/2010 11:32

That's really interesting Clarice ; I didn't know that. Definitely food for thought, thanks.

If Light won't discuss her reasons then would anyone else who's refused the jab be willing to?