HIV in nursery

[worriedperson]

AIBU to worry about this?
The guides I have read all say there is no risk of infection as long as proper hygiene procedures are carried out.
However, the staff, although good in other ways, are not that hygiene-conscious, for example, they send children home in wet pants, having not noticed they have had an accident.
Is there any real risk of catching it?
Also, what if one child bites another?

Also young and naive

gosh, so many horrible threads today.

OP may have read leaflets and guides on teh risks of HIV transmission but how many of us have read something and then felt we needed someone to explain it to us in layman's terms? i know i do and especially when it is to do with your health. tehre is absoloutely no harm in knowing all the facts and understanding them. OP has protected he child's identity by namechanging.

also those comments about the african child and thin woman are only showing your own prejudices. what you say about someone says more about you than it does them.

They cannot take blood from you without your permission, and they cannot test the blood you have given permission for them to take for things you have not consented for.

In the UK we have routine antenatal HIV testing on an opt-out basis. This means they need your permission, and you can opt out. It means they can't do it without telling you they are doing it first.

NICE guideline

If they took blood without discussing with you why they were taking it, they were very wrong to do so. Chances are they did mention it, or it was included in paperwork that was given to you, or something, even if they did it in such a way that was not clear and not fully compliant with guidelines.

If anyone during any kind of medical care says "we just need to" or "now you have to" or "we are going to" or anything like that to do with anything - then let your ears prick up and question it. By no means feel you have to go against anything but everything suggested or foisted on you, particularly during antenatal care, is to be fully understood by you, and done with your informed consent.

The amount of times I hear things like "My doctor said I had to" this that or the other - it might be that it was best for mother/baby but nobody has to do anything.

Pedantic, yes, but true.

In the name of information sharing - As a general rule, HIV will only show up in a blood test 3 months after infection. So it can be dangerous to assume that 'one' negative HIV test in pregnancy is 100% proof that you are negative if you are in a high risk group for infection. People who fall into high risk groups need regular testing and if you embark on a new relationship with a new partner and want to stop using condoms, then you AND your partner should have an HIV test.

The NHS choices link again as I'm sure it got lost in the mud flinging :

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/HIV/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Just out of interest i was tested for HIV when i was pregnant without my permission. was a very very poor doctor. I would have consented by the way but thats not the point.

To expand on Sassy's point, if you get HIV at the same time you get pregnant, (i.e a double whammy - he knocks you up on the same night he infects you - god sorry that sounds awful) then chances are it would not show up in those very tests designed to protect the baby from transmission anyway as they are done pretty early on around booking in time.

There are reams of paperwork these days when you get pregnant, various things to sign, consent for blood tests and what they are testing for is included in these, as is consent for things like the triple test if you have it or are offered it, nuchal fold, all that other kind of potentially "contraversial" stuff that people may well wish to opt out of.

It would be relatively easy in the excitement of it all to idly flick through and miss it - particularly if you are not in the minset of challenging but are rather enjoying just being pregnant and having something happening that makes it all offical (forms, scans, oh and how exciting is it when you get your maternity exemption card in the post!!!)

Thing is, most people are more than happy to be tested - most are fairly confident in their status or lack thereof, and others will have a matter of fact, well, may as well know type approach.

But remember, in pregnancy particularly, question everything they "offer" you, or at least know the ramifications or potential pitfalls. One intervention can often lead to another. But it is not to say you should necessarily opt out of anything.

Dribbleface that last post wasn't to you by the way

I daresay there are trusts where they are unable to produce proof of permission. Its naughty. They should not ever assume. Its not realistic that each patient will question a blood test and say "what is it I'm being tested for and have I given permission?". Why would you, particularly - when pregnant you are a pincushion anyway. But its wrong of them.

Didn't take it as aimed at me . Doctor just said we need to do blood tests, i knew what they were for but he never said.

At booking in, I opted out of being weighed and measured (BMI)

I am not overweight but I didn't want any doctors making comments later on about how much weight I had put on like the last time - which was mainly water due to pre-eclampsia and polyhydramous, but they still felt the need to lecture me and tell me not to eat "biscuits and cakes"

I had my baby and lost 3 stone in 5 days, returning to my pre pregnancy weight within weeks.

So for a bit of a laugh, with number 2, I decided to have a "no discussions about weight at all" pregnancy, starting with book in, where I refused BMI.

Midwife: "Right my dear, on the scales then please"
Me: Oh, no thanks. I'm going to opt out of weight and measurement.
Midwife: But you have to be weighed and measured, dear. We need to know your BMI!"
Me: No you dont.
Midwife: Dont be silly now - come on, you dont have to worry, you are lovely and slim. Take your shoes off and hop on the scales.
Me: No thanks.
Husband:
Midwife: Looks at me like I've asked her to spell chrysanthemum

Ah I miss being pregnant.

Its not very nice to speak to OP like this. She has asked an innocent question, she obviously doesnt know the ins and outs of how hiv can be transmitted so why be nasty and make her feel stupid. If you never ask, youll never know. Where getorf has she said she will go whisper it to other people. Speculating a little too much, I think your bitchy imagination ran away with you.

woahthere - it's not very nice of the OP to be so damned ignorant. It's really not very hard to google and educate herself rather than posting stupid, ignorant and offensive threads. If it were one of your friends who was HIV+ I expect you'd be hugely irritated too.

i don't understand how asking for clarification of information is offensive? can you explain that please?

Actually dont think its that unreasonable anyway to think that its possible to catch hiv if a child bit and drew blood. I looked after a mindee who believe me bit, drew blood and didnt let go. open wound + saliva + blood. YES its very unlikely, but not impossible.

and if it was me that had HIV i would be glad she was asking for the facts rather than assuming i could infect her by biting her. there is nothing offensive about wanting to know if her child was at risk.

so ignorance is purposeful ladybiscuit? oh how awful of her not to have your knowledge because all of us in this world are born with the same amount of knowledge and facts and some of us choose to ignore it. If it were one of my friends, I would feel sad and upset for my friend and would then explain it, so they..you know..had the facts.

Well it's pretty easy to find out the information. There's tons and tons online - loads of which has been linked to on this thread. So if you had HIV, don't you think it would be hurtful if people didn't bother to learn about it if they were worried and instead posted threads like this? Because I would.

With respect to both of you, I don't think you know how it would feel if you don't have it or know someone that does. Can you imagine what it's like knowing that people are scared to touch you? Or kiss you? You don't seem to be able to but it's pretty horrible I can tell you. My friend (who incidentally has been HIV+ for about 20 years) went through years of people being scared to get anywhere near him. I thought that ignorance about HIV died out last century and it makes me really sad to know that it hasn't. :(

do you know what ladybiscuit, there was a point in your life when you were ignorant about HIV. you were not born knowing this information and i can almost guarantee that when you did learn the facts you still had questions. that is how people learn, they ask. he OP on this thread has asked the question and as a result is no longer ignorant about teh transmission of HIV. yes tehre is tonnes of info out there but as i said before, sometimes we just need someone to explain things in laymans terms, especially when it comes to our health. OP is no longer ignorant about it so this thread has been a postive thing.

Well very clever you, not everyone thinks, ooh, i'll google it. The OP thought, I'll ask the people on mumsnet, and she has been givne loads of good advice as a result and her post has probably been informative to many people because of her question, and so thus contribting in dispelling any myths about hiv. I am so deeply sorry for your friend and the stigma she ahs had to deal with, but stigmas will never be dealt with in silence becasue people are afraid to ask in case they offend.

the problem with the tons and tons of information that is online though, is that some of it is innacurate/made up/out of date - there are probably googable articles which say that AIDS was sent by God to punish gay men I really cannot believe that you, who has personal experience of HIV, is berating someone for asking for further info and clarification.If the Op had posted saying 'Theres'a little adopted African child at nursery whose mother is a bit thin - will she give us HIV?' THEN you might be justified in calling her offensive. But she DIDN'T - she asked a genuine question and hopefully has received accurate information and reassurances.

No, you google first. Then you ask. It's really not acceptable to be ignorant at all and it makes me furious that you think it is.

There is a lot of information about there which even a dolt like you could understand so there is no excuse whatsoever

I'm glad this thread has overturned your prejudices but like I said, I'm really sad that 30 years on after HIV was first diagnosed, the level of ignorance and superstition is still so high.

who is the dolt here, and whose prejudices have been overturned ladybiscuit?

she had looked at the info ladybiscuit. she wanted it clarified by human beings!!!

you are right, it isn't acceptable to be ignorant which is hwy i am glad OP has asked for things to be explained rather than remaining confused about what she has read. how can you not understand that? i think your close relationship with someone who is HIV+ is clouding your opinion of this.

Actually ignorance over HIV transmission is very common. I worked abroad in an orphanage for children who were HIV positive and when I returned to work in a nursery a group of parents petitioned that I should not be there because I would infect their nice normal children.
Parents I interview with make jocular comments when they see it on my CV that I'd better have taken proper safety precautions (as if I am stupid)
One even went as far to say they wanted me to have a HIV test before they would consider me working for them.
These were all so called well educated professional people.

Someone (not sure who now) said "How many people are up to date with their HIV status?" Is sthis something we are supposed to do now? I refused testing in pregnancy (7 years ago when it was offered) as

1. I have only ever slept with dh, and I totally trust that he has only ever slept with me.

2. Neither of us have ever had a blood transfusion

3. Neither of us have ever been IV drug users

so hopefully me, dh and all our dc are HIV free.

Dh is a doctor, the NHS don't ask GPs to be tested or disclose HIV status but they do need to have up to date HepB vax.

I don' tneed to be tested to know I am -ve!