HIV in nursery

[worriedperson]

AIBU to worry about this?
The guides I have read all say there is no risk of infection as long as proper hygiene procedures are carried out.
However, the staff, although good in other ways, are not that hygiene-conscious, for example, they send children home in wet pants, having not noticed they have had an accident.
Is there any real risk of catching it?
Also, what if one child bites another?

Love the way some idiots people try to make it a race thing.

OP YANBU to be worried.
I also think a nursery that lets children home in wet knickers and tells confidential information to the parents is not a good place.

I think you need to have a private chat with the nursery about the rumours of a child having HIV if you have a child there( sorry - can't recall if it's you or someone you know using that nursery).

It could be a silly story that has no truth.

If it is true then read up on it and you will realise the children in the nursery are not at high risk or medium risk - it's a tiny risk. Then take those concerns back to the nursery manager and go through them calmly. They should be able to address all concerns.

I'd also want to know their nappy changing and wet pant changing policy.

OP sorry my last message was a bit garbled. YANBU. You are right to be concerned about children being left in wet nappies and if my child was in nursery with an HIV positive child then in my paranoid moments I would be worried about the risk of transmission too.

Can I suggest that we stop fighting about who said what and whether they should have said it - that runs the risk that the information that the OP needs will get missed in the melee.

Worriedperson - KnackeredCow posted this on page 3, and it seems to me that it addresses all your worries very clearly, so I am posting it again, to make sure that you see it.

"If a child is known to be HIV positive, then their condition will be under management.

HIV is a serious condition, but it is a manageable condition. It is not curable, but it is treatable.

My understanding (from my DH who is a GP) is that management is with anti-retrovirals. These drugs are extremely effective at lowering viral load, which would further reduce the risk of transmission to another person as well enabling an HIV positive individual to stay healthy.

The most common ways HIV is passed on are:

• Sex without a condom with someone living with HIV
• Sharing infected needles, syringes or other injecting drug equipment
• From an HIV-positive mother (to her child) during pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding

"HIV cannot be passed on by spitting, small cuts or grazes, sharing utensils or toilets seats. No case has ever been recorded of HIV transmission from child to child by biting, fighting, playing or any other normal childhood interaction." See here for further information see this website

If there is a child with HIV at the nursery, they are at much more risk from catching diseases transmitted from other children which could make them more unwell than a child who was not HIV positive.

With respect to HIV, you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about."

YANBU imo.

The risks are miniscule but unfortunately they are not none existent.

OK, apols if i jumped on a comment that was meant to be sarcastic, but really - has OP never heard of GOOGLE FGS?

This is the era of mass communication overload, there is literally information on any subject available at any time in pretty much any language you want it in.

OK so perhaps OP is very young, but FGS in the 80's, we had information rammed down our throats about how you can't catch AIDS from a toilet seat, kissing etc. Is this no longer taught???

How hard can it be to google How Aids is transmitted?

How on EARTH has this information come to light at the nursery???

This is a post school chucking out time thread, in AIBU ... I smell BS, but don't stop on my account... carry on and all that....

I have to agree with flightattendant, I don't see anything in the OP that's deserving of the kind of contempt some responses have shown.

OP, your child is not in danger because another child in the nursery may have HIV. I hope you can wade through the self-righteous outrage and see that the actual facts that people are posting are true: typical childhood interaction and even playground scraps and biting are not the ways that HIV is spread.

If the OP had some worries about this, it is perfectly reasonable for her to have gone onto an anonymous internet forum to ask the question, rather than raising the issue in her real life. And I don't see the problem with using this forum to do it; she was wondering whether her concerns were unreasonable, wasn't she?

You would swear by some of the responses here that rather than post an inoffensive question online, she'd picketed the nursery or started a petition to expel the child.

LMHF,

why on earth are you stressing that the OP should have used google rather than asked on Mumsnet?

Does it matter? Really? They are both sources of information and advice.

Ridiculous.

HIV is not that infectious. I'm a m/w and have delivered babies to HIV+ women. Normal, active vaginal births where there is a fair bit of blood and gore. Even with that amount of blood I wasn't concerned that I was going to "catch2 it.

Sad thread

there is a poster on here who has to keep her DH's HIV status secret for fear of backlashes and judgement

I wish people would get truly informed about HIV and the associated risks (and absolutely yes hep C) rather than worrying about what frankly is very little indeed.

If you want to ensure your child is never exposed to an HIV carrier, stay home. But make sure you get tested first.

Viva, when I have delivered babies to hiv+ mums I follow trust policy which involves goggles etc. Plus we also usually know the cd4 count.

Bit different to a nursery setting and is an obvious worry to a mum that doesn't have all the knowledge.

The OP sounds to me like the poster has issues with the nursery rather than the child with alledged HIV.

OP, you are not being unreasonable to question the nurserys hygiene standards.
You should have a word with them about the children being sent home wet.

SMA, with great respect, getting informed is actually what I suspect the OP was trying to do!

Perhaps FA, but I personally would wish to get informed in private rather than risk spreading worries to other people.

And I do worry about what other poster would think if she saw this: I hope she doesn't, I know all about what being over sensitive is like (not saying she is, I just know I would be)!

I'd be worried about it in a nursery class because of biting. If the child was a biter how could confidentiality be maintained? Older children wouldn't bother me.

The thing is, the OP needs to consider that any visitor to her home could have the virus, it's the unknown that's riskier. That's why we should all act 'as if' we all need protecting- and people living with HIV probably need more protection.

Agree it sounds like a shit nursery.

That's true SMA; I hadn't thought of it from that point of view.

There's a big difference between worrying about a child at nursery where biting can occur and being prejudiced against an adult. A nursery child biting is a developmental stage, an incident can happen in a flash. If my child were bitten by a child with HIV I'd be very worried. As would every single parent on this forum. Prejudice doesn't come into it (in most cases).

Sanctimoany - excellent point about knowing your own HIV status. I wonder how many posters who have spouted indignation that a genuine question has been asked, are fully up to date with their own HIV status and that of their partner and own children ?

Well yes Spikey but tbh knowing or not knowing- AS Sassy says so many people have no idea what their status is. I was tested with my last child so feel confident but if I hadn't I doubt I would have sought out a test tbh.

There will be kids in nursery schools and play areas who ahve HIV but have never been diagnosed. So every bite is a risk really, and all steps taken to maximise safety.

But also a bite isn;t really a risk unless there is body fluid contact; I have been bitten many time by my boys, indeed toddler ds2 was nicknamed 'toe piranha' (he's 9 now, he grew out of it). I have never yet been bitten hard enough to draw blood by a child already bleeding or with open sores.

WRT to the urine issue though, sounds awful and I would be complaining about the infrequent changes; if they are so lax on detectable things, how are they on teh invisible ones?

I have posted this once, StayingDavidTennantsGirl re-posted it and I am now posting it again

"HIV cannot be passed on by spitting, small cuts or grazes, sharing utensils or toilets seats. No case has ever been recorded of HIV transmission from child to child by biting, fighting, playing or any other normal childhood interaction."

This information can be found on the National AIDS Trust's website

As a parent you are worried, but your heightened fears are exaggerating the risk. HIV transmission by human bite,is extremely rare.However,do ask nursery about their policies to put your mind at ease.Best avoid any gossip about the child potentially involved.Asking the question is one thing,taking on board the advice given is the other.

Flight you got all stressed last week that AIBU was bad for Mumsnet,and you had the topic hidden.So,what happened?Do you secretly love it?

So you'd think nothing of it then if it was your child? Fine. I'd still be worried. Spit is a bodily fluid. And I'm not some big hysteric either. I would still have the child round to play or whatever. But the worry would be there if it did happen. It's a natural reaction.

Spit isn;t a risk actor as far as I am aware.

And my child has been bittena nd tbh it never even occurred to me to worry; what would you do, get an HIV test? I used to 1-1 an adult with LD, a spitter with a diagnosed Hep C condition (I am vaccinated) and maybe I am desensitised but from a normal playschool bite- nope.