to think this is normal motherhood?

[foreverastudent]

AIBU to think that feeling tired, moody, irritable, tearful, lonely, guilty, sore, tense, unable to cope, overwhelmed and trapped, along with having difficulty eating, sleeping, getting out, concentrating, motivating yourself and not wanting as much sex as before is

normal motherhood

and should be conquered by having better support systems in place, either provided by family, friends, community or the state

not

by boosting the profits of a company that made $5.49 billion in the 1st quarter of 2010.

Katesmate. Do go and see your doctor. If you can't talk to him or think you'll just cry then write out your post from here and hand it to him. Take care.

Huskyflodynamo - I apologise if I was unnecessarily rude but that is genuinely how I feel. I am fedup of seeing people with a chemical imbalance being told to go for a walk and they'll feel better. I'm fedup of seeing fantastic people suffering unneccessarily.

I have battled with depression for all of my adult life and it really angers me to basically be told that if my environment was different I'd be fine. Tried that - guess what, it wasn't. I am similar to Lulumaam, in that I have everything plus the guilt of having everything. I am continuing to take my meds because if I don't DD won't have a mother around.

Thanks everyone who read my post last night, i went to the doctors today to collect a prescription for my anti sickness tablets and had a bit of a meltdown at the receptionist, i told her i needed to see someone now, she said cant do today, i burst into tears and said i have to, i cant cope anymore, so i got to see a doctor.

I just crumbled, and long story short, i have antenatal depression, ive been given anti depressants and told i need therapy, also told if im this bad now i`ll probably be worse after the birth, which didnt fill me with hope.

Pills are apparently going to take a couple of weeks to kick in, and i have to phone someone about therapy next wednesday, then wait for an appointment in the post.

The doctor had to search his medical books to find out what i could take while pregnant, ive googled what hes given me and it says it hasnt been established if these pills are safe to take in pregnancy, so, not sure what to do for the best.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, i know its not about me, but thought i`d update those of you that posted to me

Katesmate, well done for going to the doctors - hard as it was to do, its very brave, and a step in the right direction; the first step is always the worst.

What tablets has he put you on, maybe we can help?

Thank you SirBoobAlot, ive been given Clomipramine, starting off with one 25mg tablet at night for three days, then increasing to two for three days, then increasing to three for as long as it takes

Clomipramine is normally prescribed for anxiety as well as depression, so should hopefully help you :) However, if you're not happy with it even before you start taking it, you can request to take something else during pregnancy.

I'm afraid I have no experience of it myself, or know anyone who has taken it that I know of. Will ask around.

So glad you 'did it', katesmate. By the way, I really like your name! I don't have experience of that particular drug either but you could start a thread on it or do a mumsnet search on it and see what others, who have experience, say.

And you're welcome to hijack the thread as far as I'm concerned, I wasn't too happy about the OP...

katesmate if you are really undecided re the meds then don't put your head in the sand. You could go back to the GP and express your concerns. Or possibly the GP may be prepared to refer your for a second opinion to see a psychiatrist?

In our area pregnant women with AND and new mothers with PND are seen as priority cases.

I have a psychiatrist, OP, does that mean I'm allowed to have my pills?

Let me guess, forever a psychology student? Go back to the books love, you haven't learnt nearly enough yet if you're talking this much shite.

Thanks all

MerryMarigold I have had a quick look in antenatal too see if i could find anything about it, but havent found anything so far, oh and i havent got a mate called kate! I just needed another name to post under, incase anyone recognises my real name!

Flollipop I have to ring the mental health service in three working days, then wait for an appointment in the post along with two questionnaires, so im guessing it wont be a quick process, not that i mind about that, i honestly dont think therapy will help, ive not had anything like this before, it all started when i got pregnant, so the rational, intelligent side of me is saying its down to hormones/chemicals due to the pregnancy, so really the only thing that will help is meds to balance things out again, and once i give birth, things should go back to normal. Thats my hope anyway!

Ive taken one pill, but ive got to increase that to 2 pills, then to 3 a day, and im really not happy about taking that many, so i will go back for a second opinion. Also, according to the blurb that came with the tablets, it says blood pressure should be taken before prescribing, it wasnt! Ive never had a problem with high/low blood pressure, but im pregnant, a little overweight and incredibly stressed out, so i wouldve thought it shouldve been taken anyway!

So, i will go for a second opinion and will be in a better state of mind to ask the right questions instead of just sobbing that i cant take anymore!

Hi Katesmate
Just to make you feel a bit better I know two women who had antenatal depression like you and it cleared completely when they had given birth, fingers crossed this happens to you!

to all the posters who said "fuck off, fuck you, you don't know what you're talking about, etc"

1. I never criticised anyone or said or implied anyone was a 'failure' for taking ADs. I was clearly having a go at society in general, lazy GPs and pharmaceutical companies, not Mums.

2. I backed up everything I said with reliable, resected research.

3. From what people have said here I do have more personal, familial and professional experience of mental illness/depression/PND than other posters. It's pretty upsetting for me to have to dredge up my history to defend myself but when faced with such vitriol I see it as my only option.
   My DF, my soulmate, the love of my life, had severe depression. I nursed him through it for months, coming home to find him unshaven, swaying on the couch rambling incoherently. I had to remove anything he could use to hurt himself from our home (painkillers, knives, belts). I dragged him to the GP to beg to have him put on ADs. He took them, but still, a few months later he killed himself.

Unfortunately this terrible event is not my only experience of mental illness. I grew up with a mother who had bipolar disorder (manic depression), which is now thankfully controlled by medication. I have no objection to this and other psychotic conditions such as PNI (which one poster mentioned) being managed medically.

I, myself have also suffered from depression. As a teenager I attempted suicide and in recent years became so ill we had to spend thousands on childcare for our 2 DCs and for my DP to become my full-time carer because I couldn't be left alone without self-harming.

With all this experience I became a mental health advocacy worker where I worked with women with PND, PTSD and schizophrenia.

To those who questioned my academic credentials I have actually graduated and am currently a post-grad researcher. One of my recent studies involved interviewing new mums on their experiences so I think I have a pretty good grasp of what is 'normal' and not.

4)To people who said they had 'support' and still got ill I say that you couldn't possibly have had the level and nature of support I detailed earlier. Our society isn't child centric and until that changes 'support' available is merely tokenism. People are fobbed off with pills because it is easier and cheaper then structural and ideological change.

5)To people who have taken ADs and recovered from PND you seem to be confusing co-occurance with causation. Just because things happen at the same time or in a certain order does not mean that one causes the other. I have already quoted evidence that AD 'success' is no more than the placebo effect.

6. the chemical vs social argument Some depression is caused by chemical imbalances- I never denied this. In fact my best friend has recently started taking prozac following a bereavement. She has no social support and not taking medication isn't going to rewind the clock and change this. She has a history of heavy cannabis use so I believe that her brain has become impaired at regulating seratonin and therefore I was supportive of her taking this drug in this scenario. I was, however quite alarmed that she didn't actually know what drug she had been prescribed, but that is another matter.

But this example does not mean that the majority of PND is not rooted in social/environmental factors. If it was just an imbalance caused by childbirth then it would effect all mother uniformly. But this isn't the case. Mothers with social/environmental stresses like unplanned pregnancy, unsupportive partners, isolation from friends/family, children close together/multiple births, poverty, poor diet etc have a much higher incidence of being diagnosed.
Prescribing medication individualises a problem which is societal.

7. I started this thread because I was alarmed at a friend telling me that she (marginally) 'failed' her edinburgh test and that she was automatically being put on ADs. No discussion of counselling/alleviating stresses, just pills. I'm not going to pretend that I'm a psychiatrist but she has almost all of the social/environmental factors listed above so of course she is going to feel a bit tired/overwhelmed/irritable at the moment. I class that as normal under her circumstances. (She has no severe symptoms). So no I dont agree with her HV/GP automatically medicating her normal resonse to what is a very stressful time for her.

Op, if you had all that experience of mental illness then there is no way you would have worded your thread title and OP so insensitively. You would have known how much hurt and offence your comments would cause.

As has been the case throughout this whole thread you are disingenuous and I really think you need to walk away and leave this now before cause even more upset, if thats possible.

By the sounds of it some posters on here are over sensitive and have jumped on the OP with a lot of unnecessary vitriol.

Of course some depression needs treating with meds, but it should only be given out in cases when councelling isn't appropriate. Often there is no phychiatric help readily available, so people are automatically put on pills. This doesn't mean pills shouldn't ever be used.

And from personal experience, I would say that british society is very intolerant and unhelpful when it comes to other people's kids. I had my DS in Spain, in a major city. No one ever gave me dirty looks in the supermarket when he had a tantrum, but they would come up and chat to me and make funny faces at him, jolly him along. The metro had no lifts, but I only had to stand at the entrance with the push chair for a total stranger to come and help me carry him down. I would go to a bar and all the customers and staff would want to hold him and chat to him and me. There, GPs don't consider it a chore to take care of their GC, but a privilege and a necessity of life. Every one considers all children to be their responsibility.

I had a total culture shock on my return to the UK when DS was 2. In a small country town, he escaped from my grasp and went running down the main street. I couldn't catch him, and even though there were hundres of people in the street, no one helped to stop him.

It may seem a little thing, but it's the little things that can make the difference to a happy day and a miserable one.

I think the OP was just a little clumbsy in the wording of her first post - clearly she is very well educated and was just having a bit of a rant. That doesn't mean she is being offensive to those cases of genuine PND.
Let me tell you something, and I'll try to keep it short as poss - I'm stuck out here in the US and found it very difficult to fit in with a lot of the other mums here. I don't think I had PND but was very close to it (possibly because I chose to hide how I felt from the doctor), struggling with extreme lack of sleep, a new culture, no friends etc... I found the women very steely and lacking emotion, no-one had a bad day, moaned about their partner, was anything other than happy happy happy - kind of like Stepford. Even women who had lost young infants or had miscarriages seemed emotionless, when I would have expected to see them upset or cry just once.
Three years later when I knew all of these women much better, we were talking about this, and it transpires that ALL of them - all fifteen in my mums group - were on AD meds, all being told they had PND. Following the birth of my second child, during my post natal checks, I was offered AD to give me more energy, when I had jokingly complained of feeling a bit overwhelmed and suffering from lack of sleep. They were serious. I did not have PND at all.
So, I agree strongly with the OP - too many people who don't have PND and are just going through the normal tribulations of motherhood are being made to feel that they need chemical help. I'm all for people getting help when they need it, but not giving ADs to people who don't have genuine depression.

Personally in some respects I feel the OP is not being unreasonable. I see new mothers all the time who are in one bedroom 4th/5th/23rd floor flats with a new baby. They struggle to get in and out of the home, struggle with the shopping an the pram, struggle to know where to store things, rarely have help from relatives or neighbours and can quickly become isolated. I totally understand why they may develop depression. The instead of tackling the root causes - the isolation and the inadequate housing etc a GP puts them on antiepressants and sends them back to the same situation which le to the low feelings in the first place. Hideous.

On the other hand OP we do have children's centres and outreach workers now - in my area they offer a fabulous befriending service which helps reduce the isolation, we have Homestart, we have local mother and baby groups. Not the same as someone being there 24/7 but it helps.

I had PND, I was isolated, anxious and unwell with gall stones. Overwhelming anxiety followed and I am not sure the AD's DID help me - but they were a focus.

foreverastudent I did not take offence at anything in your post.

What I took from it, and excuse me if it`s wrong, is that childbirth and new motherhood can be a very stressful time and many or all of the feelings you described are a perfectly natural reaction.

Therefore the Edinburgh test is recording normal/natural feelings which will change, in some cases, over time with a good support system and possibly counselling if required.
And that AD can be too quickly prescribed.

I did not read into that at all that AD`s should never be prescribed. I am genuinely a bit puzzled at the reaction of some posters although more than likely I have completely misinterpreted your post!

You've basically assumed anyone who disagrees with you is stupid or doesn't understand, glad to see there are people like this doing reasearch and studies

I don`t understand your post LBOE. Where has the OP called anyone stupid?

As a PND sufferer 11 years ago and withdrawing from prozac I have been left totally confused by this thread, and by people's reactions to it because I think the OP has some valid points, but I do think the OP was maybe badly worded and caused the confusion. I think AD's have been given out too freely in this country and I would far rather have had other support in place to help me with my PND because the medication totally numbed me emotionally and sexually and here I am 11 years down the road still on prozac but slowly weaning off, without the support of my GP who appears to know nothing about the powerful drug he put me on.

when I went to the doctor to discuss my PND I was asked what would benefit me, did I want counselling? it could be conducted over the phone or in person, did I want medication?
It depends on the area you live in and the resources available for your health authority.

lets not forget that some pnd is not dealt with properly because new mums feel like they should be able to cope and don't ask for help.