to be sick of the way some people react to 'freedom of expression'

[NotSoScary]

Before I continue, just want to clarify that I myself am a Muslim.

Im just so sick of all the attacks on Islam but Im even more sick of the reactions these cause. Examples include the Satanic Versus, the Prophets cartoon and more recently 'burn a koran day'. I mean what is the bleeding point in burning flags and protesting when these things happen? I get it, everyone has a right to express themselves and if u dont like Islam or dont agree with it, fine, express away. All I care about is being able to practise my faith and respecting all others, I truly believe in live and let live.

The reactions we are getting right now to burn a koran day is just so over the top, no one would even know about it if people just ignored it. The ignorant fool that came up with the day has never even read the koran so if u really want to do something about it, why not challenge him to a debate?

Sorry, I dont really know what Im trying to say, just needed to rant. Im just so tired of all the negative press on Islam all the time and cant help but think if it wernt for OTT reactions, it wouldnt be there. We're not all the same.

I haven't started mentioning them, I have tried not to mention that I'm not prejudice because I have Muslim friends bollox because it's rather besides the point. My Muslim friends did not have the luxury of converting or being born here, they are Iranian. I do have a disk=like for all patriarchal religions, in fact I dislike most forms of control...I particularly think Islam is guilty of dealing a shit hand to women. As a religion, as it stands, I would rather it did not grow in the UK. I would say the same about other groups that breed extremists capable of mass acts of violence.

When are Muslims going to admit that Islam massively fails it's followers?

GAG - Which ones? Iran/Saudi/Syria are all Theocracies, some with a democratic veneer. Iraq will likely be in the end. Egypt and Turkey seem to do better at maintaining a secular state.

Yes, that's my point Islam is being used as a tool of control - one of the things that needs is an external enemy to focus the population on to distract from what is hapening at home. So, Islam is then tarnished by extremism encouraged by these states in the interests of their own stability.

PosieParker - It can only fail it's followers if it's trying to do something for them - what is it trying to do for them?

I'm guessing, aside from control, it's supposed to enrich and improve peoples lives....the way it fails to deal with extremism is allowing the whole of the Muslim world be tarnished with the same reputation. Muslims in the Europe seem, by more Bhurka wearing and protesting, to want to sit closer to it's sisters and brothers in Arab/African nations as opposed to keeping their distance,.

Syria is not a theocracy, it's a secualar Baathist state. Did you think otherwise just because you hear what a naughty country it is?

We're in the realm of Middle Eastern politics now, which is a complicated topic, but it's fair to say that Islam is not the only, or even the most important factor here. Pan-Arabism, post-colonialism, regional interpretaions of Marxism-Leninism, plus Western foreign policy all have huge roles.

See, the thing is I'm sure it DOES enrich and improve some peoples lives. Muslims in europe are being pushed towards extremism by a general rise in militancy amongst the wider international muslim community and by feeling increasingly excluded in Europe.

The same is happening with Christians who are becoming more vocal as their privileges are eroded.

It's a bit unfortunate, really, that the koran-burner is such a rightwing attention-seeking knobber. I wonder what the reaction would be if a group of feminists (particularly if some of them had been raised as Muslims and decided that they didn;t need the woman-hating superstitious bullshit in their lives) decided to publicly burn the Koran as a protest against the misogyny so common in Islam.

At this point, can I recommend this article by someone who knows her stuff and is not 1) a godbotherer AT ALL 2)knows her stuff and researches well

She is very good at explaining what the "Ground Zero Mosque" is in reality, and what all the players are getting out of this nonsense.

It's cold non emotional stuff as usual from her, not hot rabble rousing.

I think women choose their culture/men over feminism, without a doubt. Even on mumsnet feminism/feminist topic are dirty words.
In the seventies, Iranian women sided with their men and took to the streets, wearing muslim veils, to protest against American imperialism which was taking over their country, led by the Shah at the time, who was on good terms with the west.The Shah was exiled to the US and the Ayatollah took over, which was when Iran became oppressive towards women. (A revolution always eats its children, as they say)
Since then, reformers (such as Khatami) have been popular, and Iranians will push for reform on their own terms. They do not need to be taught how to be civilised.

THat is a fantastic article, catinthehat. Brilliant.
THere is no such thing as too much paranoia when it comes to the media (I was accused of paranoia on here the other day). After the Iraq lies and killing of Dr Kelly I make a point of not believing anything I hear in the media.

Very good article.
I wonder how far from the site of the towers some people would find acceptable?

Is the burning still going ahead?
I do feel these people (all of them) are behaving worse then animals and are quite vile, Muslim and Christian alike.

I don't like you so I will burn your flag, and I don't like you so I will burn your book and on it goes till each side starts burning the others children and homes.

As a Christian I can assure you mad book burning man is not doing it in my name or that of my God, he is doing it for his own deep rooted fear and hatred of others.
Not every Muslim is a terrorist and not every Christian is a bigoted book burning nut job

'The Koran hasn't had any reform or reinterpretation'...the Bible hasn't been reformed either, but as time has gone on, there have been far more liberal interpretations; however ask an RC versus a CofE liberal about abortion and they'll both find quotes to support their opposing stances.

What I did find a litle disturbing was when marking the RE GCSEs this summer. Some kids prefaced each answer with 'I am a Muslim and...' even where it wasn't germane to what had been asked. I was also a little perturbed at the insistence in some answers that Muhammed was the perfect human being, and if Muhammed had done something it must be right. Now I know that the Hadith and Sunnah are used as a guide, but some of these kids seemed to take them literally, and that is scary, as they should also be factoring in modern viewpoints. I think that is what alarms me at times, that the Koran, Hadith and Sunnah are read so literally by some, whilst they live in a 21st Century world.

'Im just so sick of all the attacks on Islam '

i think this a sick thing to post on 9/11

Broadband - it's a good job no one did then innit.

Great article. There have been one or two others pointing out patiently that there is no such thing as a 'ground zero mosque' planned but they have generally got lost in all the shrieking and nappy-filling on both sides.

It's nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with mid-terms.

Scaryteacher - The Qur'an and Sunnah is seen as being a guidance for all times. Which may seem scary to you, but what they are meant to guide towards is being kind to others, giving to charity and having a good relationship with God.

Gag - I think what scary is saying is scary, is that "guidance for all time" is being interpreted as "7th century codes of behaviour are appropriate in the 21st century."

By who? Not by any Muslims I know. All I've mentioned above are timeless.

I find it really tiresome that Islam is somehow this evil ideology that Muslims need to be weaned off for their own good.

I think the fact that Islam and Muslims are so demonised, is precisely why you have children writing that they are Muslim in their exam papers, as childish as it may seem, it's their way of showing pride in who they are, while living in a society which views being Muslim as something rather shameful.

Goth - what Coalition says is exactly what I meant. Stoning for adultery may have been acceptable in the seventh century, it is not now. Issuing Fatwahs against authors because you don't like their fiction isn't 20th or 21st century behaviour.

The bible is meant to be guidance for all time, but interpretations have moved on. Homosexuality is now accepted, in the light of modern mores, as is abortion by some Christians. I do understand what the Qur'an, Hadith and Sunnah are seen as, but it is the literal interpretation that frightens me, and it seems to a certain extent, the acceptance and non-questioning of these texts. Is what Muhammed said or did in the seventh century within the context of the society he lived in, really applicable to a 21st century life? Yes, there's the argument that some truths are timeless, but I don't think that the bible is as proscriptive and prescriptive as the Qur'an, Hadith and Sunnah.

I don't think Islam is an evil ideology, but it seems that attempts to discuss it are met with reluctance, and (understandably) defensiveness. I want to understand some of the things that I just don't get about Islam; but I can't get a definitive answer.

Writing 'I am a Muslim' for the exams made me laugh on one occasion, as we mark a block of three questions together, and one candidate had been a Roman Catholic, then a Muslim and then C of E, in each of the 3 responses so rather confused about their religious identity.

What you are discussing are known as 'Hudd' punishments. They represent a minuscule proportion of the Islamic texts. Tariq Ramadan has written a lot about why these should not be carried out in modern times (on bb, cannot link), the vast majority of Muslims would agree with him.

We don't sit around talking about how good it would be if stoning was practised. I do feel that non-Muslims are far more obsessed with these things then Muslims are.

I think people are entitled to hold different viewpoints on society. The examples you've listed are rare and more importantly politically motivated. The Satanic Verses was over 20 years ago, but you make it seem like it was last week.
I keep repeating myself here, but stop denying Muslims a context. Behind a lot of things you see Muslims do abroad there are often non-religious reasons - politics, nationalism, economics.

Also, I think it's a bit disingenuous of you to claim that your Muslim students were inappropriately mentioning that in exams and then stating, that it was just a student answering the questions strangely.

"Im just so sick of all the attacks on Islam but Im even more sick of the reactions these cause." Notsoscary

Well other religions are sick of constantly being called infidels by your kind.

A1980 - We just all need to love one another. Man.

"A1980 - We just all need to love one another. Man."

I know man! :) I have no problem with other religions, races, etc, none at all never have had.

But for a member of possibly the MOST intolerant religion on the face of the planet to say she's sick of Islam bashing... well that pushes even my buttons.