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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to object to FIL's caveat on gift?

127 replies

hatsybatsy · 08/09/2010 11:19

just received v generous cheque from the ILs - they like to do things like this as it's tax efficient. cheques always come with a letter we are suppposed to file stating that the git is "free of all tax implications"....

so anyway, with this one they have suggested we put it towards school fees. yes - fine - we probably would do that anyway.

BUT he then goes on to say that it should not be used to pay fees at "so-called faith schools" Hmm

i object to this on so many levels - they're our kids, their education is our choice...

am also puzzled - their school is not a faith school and they have only just started. does he think it is a faith school? and if so is he actually asking us to move them?

AIBU to object to this?

OP posts:
whoneedssleepanyway · 09/09/2010 09:25

are you saying he has just "suggested" you put it towards school fees it isn't a condition of the gift, and so therefore surely you can spend the money how you chose.

and if their school isn't a faith school what is the problem?

why can't you just say thank you very much, we will be using it on school fees, they are very happy at their current school which incidently isn't a faith school.

on the £3k exemption thing it is £3k per year for the donor so your parents in law can give £6k per year as a couple not £12k as someone else suggested.

sanielle · 09/09/2010 09:32

to be honest with you, I think being annoyed that someone has given you a gift of paying for your child's school that you would complain about "conditions".

It is a lot of money and he wants to pay for the children's school, he is the children's grandfather and has a right to say it is for something,. You have a right to not accept.

It is your parent in law money. They can do whatever they like with.

I think YABU

Deliaskis · 09/09/2010 09:35

hatsybatsy I do get why you're puzzled, but not why you feel it leaves a bad taste.

I was trying to think of other similar scenarios, imagine for example:

You are a lifelong leftie/socialist type, FIL gives you a checque with the caveat that he doesn't want you to donate it to the Tory party.

Or

You are a vegetarian, he gives you a cheque and asks that you don't spend it on foie gras.

Or

You are a supporter Fair Trade and Social Responsibility, FIL gives you a cheque and asks that you don't spend it on products from[insert socially irresponsible company here].

Or

You are an immigrant from [insert appropriate country here], he gives you a cheque and asks you don't spend it on contributions to the BNP.

In all of those situations, you don't want to anyway, so why is this a big deal? FIL doesn't have a 'right' to dictate your politics/religion/what you eat or where you shop, but he does have a right to say how he would like his money to be spent.

In our situ, it is more likely in the future that FIL might wish/try to fund a catholic education for our kids. In that case, I would just say, thanks, we've looked at the options and don't feel it's right for us and DC at the mo so thanks but it doesn't seem fair to accept your gift.

I really don't think it is controlling or objectionable for gifts to be made in this way. It is your right to decide how your kids are educated, but it is just as much his right to stipulate how his money is spent. Nobody is controlling anybody else.

FWIW, anybody who has ever given a gift of vouchers is dictating to some extent how the recipient spends the money, in that the vouchers are for one store, perhaps just clothes, or CDs etc. Even if a department store, you're still dictating that they don't spend it in another department store. I don't think it's all that different, just on a larger scale.

D

Greensleeves · 09/09/2010 09:37

I think it is the height of bad manners to offer a gift or help with conditions attached

either give it or don't

you can't buy a stake in somebody else's decision-making by offering moneyHmm

so IMO it is the FIL who has no manners, and I would politely decline the gift and explain why I felt it was inappropriate

as we have in fact done with MIL and her "gifts"

mummytime · 09/09/2010 09:44

Well why don't you try to find out casually their opinions on faith schools in the future? Just to try to work out what the issue was? Does your DH have any siblings? Do they have kids? Are any of them at a faith school?

If you do find out I'm dying to know what the issue is? (Is a sibling about to send their child to Claremont Fan Court or Ampleforth or some fundamentalist place?)

Morloth · 09/09/2010 09:46

Money+family=poison

mayorquimby · 09/09/2010 09:46

Initially was going to say that yanbu to object but would be grossly U to accept and ignore the caveat.
then read this:
"am not giving it back - and wouldn't even if we were going to break his 'rule'."

So YABVU, either it's a matter of principle and as you have placed yourself on your moral high-horse of "my kids/my life what right does he have etc." you either return the cheque or you accept the terms and conditions with good grace.
After all it is his money and as such it is his right to attach terms and conditions to such a large gift.

Greensleeves · 09/09/2010 09:46

why should she have to research his poxy views? Who cares what he thinks about faith schools, they're not his kids

am I missing something? Confused

Treats · 09/09/2010 09:51

hatsybatsy - I have a bit of sympathy with what you're trying to say. I haven't been in this situation - yet - but I can easily imagine it coming up in the future and have thought about it.

My ILs are wealthy - much wealthier than my parents - but they're also (I find) quite cold and unloving. They have a habit of making generous gifts, in part, I think, because they find it hard to express their feelings in other ways.

DD isn't quite 1, but she's the apple of all her grandparents' eyes. My ILs are quite savvy with their money, and - while I'm most certainly not expecting it - I can easily imagine that they might in the future want to make a generous gift for her benefit to avoid us having to pay IHT when they die. Which would of course be wonderful.

But it would worry me a lot if they chose to make that gift to pay school fees. I was state educated, DH went to private school; I'm RC, DH is CofE. My preference would be for DD to go to a state RC school, but it's a decision for DH and I to make at the right time, with all the circumstances in mind.

If the ILs were to make a gift of cash to pay for school fees, it would make things very awkward. How could we turn it down without looking ungrateful? But how could we make a free choice about what education is best for our DD if we're being forced, through politeness, to send her to a private school?

So - although the scenario isn't the same, I can understand why you're uncomfortable with the caveat. Even though that particular caveat is irrelevant at the moment, there might be a future gift with a caveat that you're not comfortable with, and you're setting up an expectation that you'll always be happy to abide by their caveats. Is it hypocritical to stick to them when they're convenient and only object when they contravene your own wishes? If it is, does that mean that you can't refuse future gifts, even if they impose conditions that you're not happy to abide by? I sympathise with that dilemma.

Although - as some posters have pointed out - it's a nice dilemma to have Smile.

mayorquimby · 09/09/2010 09:53

No need to research his views. He made it clear. "I'm giving you x amount as long as it is not spent on y"
two options:
1)accept and adhere to caveat
2)decline

or secret option 3 accept and then bitch and moan because extremely generous gift was givin in a manner you disagree with but not disagree with strongly enough to turn down because you still want the money obviously but you want to have it and not be greatfull for it at the same time

Greensleeves · 09/09/2010 09:54

I do agree that you can't have the moral high ground and the fat cheque though Grin

mayorquimby · 09/09/2010 09:59

Exactly. You lose all credibility of the principled argument of "my kids education is my decision/what right does he have. etc." when you follow it up with "What? Give the money back? are you mad? No I'll just keep it even though it goes against my priciples and act like the unreasonable person in all this is the person giving me a gift."

lowenergylightbulb · 09/09/2010 10:19

I'm an atheist, but if someone gave me the equivalent a years worth of school fee's on the proviso that I started going to church I'd be buying a pilgrim pass for the popes uk tour faster than you could say 'father in law'.....

hatsybatsy · 09/09/2010 10:26

but our views coincide at the moment so am able to maintain moral high ground and keep cheque.

am happy for them to take an interest in kids school - they have always turned down invites to school events til now but will persevere.

am puzzled by the odd caveat (and concerned that he may have imposed same condition on SIL who has yet to choose a school as her dd is only 1).

OP posts:
Deliaskis · 09/09/2010 10:28

Agree with Mayorquimby and Greensleeves, if it's his principle (the caveat) rather than his practice (they're not at a faith school anyway) you disagree with, then if you wish to be principled yourself, the only solution is to decline the gift.

D

hatsybatsy · 09/09/2010 10:29

LOL at lowenergy lightbulb!

am very Hmm that people would honestly give a large cheque back (and risk severely damaging relationship with PIL) over this kind of issue.

feel am within my rights to not like him imposing conditions, but also within my rights to acknowledge that this is a non issue at the moment and keep the cheque.

OP posts:
diddl · 09/09/2010 10:47

Is the confusion what is meant by "faith school" then?

TBH, I thought many schools in UK were connected to CofE-or wouldn´t that count?

Don´t many schools still have assembly with hymns & prayers?

lowenergylightbulb · 09/09/2010 11:00

Grin @ hatsy

diddl · 09/09/2010 11:07

Why wouldn´t someone decline a cheque if it came with conditions they didn´t agree with?

nurseryconcerns · 09/09/2010 11:16

really truly do not see the issue. Not at all. His caveat coincides not only with your views but also what you are actually doing. What is all the fuss about?

And whether he gives your sil some money and issues a caveat, it's none of your business and not your problem. it's up to them to then decide whether or not they will accept the money & the caveat surely? Nowt whatsoever to do with you.

mayorquimby · 09/09/2010 11:18

"but our views coincide at the moment so am able to maintain moral high ground and keep cheque."

No you haven't. You've lost the moral high-ground as you've shown that it's not the principle of the matter at all. It's just what suits you.
If I were to say "it's a matter of principle that I won't let X dictate to me", but happily allow him to dictate to me (or allow him to believe he has) because I was going to do Y anyway then I have set aside my principles for an easier life because it suits me to at that point.
If my principles mattered I'd inform X that he has no right to dictate to me and inform him that I was going to do Y anyway but that it was my choice and he was not in a position to exert authority over me.

2rebecca · 09/09/2010 11:44

People give gifts with caveats all the time though by choosing particular gifts or vouchers for particular shops. It's rare to get a large cheque to spend on anything you want. If the GPs had just offered to directly pay the school fees for a year would there have been this fuss?
When my stepson was smoking cannabis we gave him vouchers rather than money so he wouldn't spend it on weed. Should he have refused as evidence of our "control" and against his principles or accepted it as a nice birthday present?
Am amazed so many of you think the only acceptable present is a cheque.

hatsybatsy · 09/09/2010 11:49

some of you are saying - what is all the fuss about, this is a non issue and others are still angrily arguing that i am comrpromising my position by taking the cheque.

i think this is a non issue for the time being - i don't like the idea that any gift would come with strings attached but in this case, fil has exerted no influence whatsoever as we made the choice of school over 3 years ago.

SIL's situation is clearly not my business. dh thinks gil may have written that in our letter because he wrote that to SIL and was trying to be even-handed. that situation is different from ours as her dc is so young (and they haven't looked into schools yet) - but clearly not my business.

OP posts:
nurseryconcerns · 09/09/2010 12:06

so if it's a non issue, and you think it's a non-issue, why did you start the thread Confused.

fwit, I think it's fine to give money with a caveat if we're talking about deeply held principles. eg if I were loaded, and dd wanted eg to buy a car, and needed one for work, I would possibly give her the money specifying she should spend it on a good car, and not piss it up the wall on partying, bad boyfriends or whatever. (I am not loads, and dd is 2, so entirely fictional :))

Is this not reasonable?

If you really feel strongly that people shouldn't give gifts with strings don't take it.

I am astonished though tbh. If any relative of mine gave me a huge sum of money, I would be really delighted and grateful, not complaining about the manner in which it were given. Or if I really felt there were malevolent intentions behind it, I wouldn't accept it.

Heracles · 09/09/2010 12:07

Christ, I wish I had the OP's problems; people giving me free money with harmless conditions attached, I'd be distraught...

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