to think that Muslim Girls should not be wearing headscarves....

[PosieParker]

at primary school?

here

"This IS done by uneducated and fervent muslims

Little - why do you assume it's done by uneducated fervent muslims?

I think you meant the hijab?

Attacks on cultural practices actually, not on people.

"but I still firmly believe that different religions should be allowed to practice their beliefs and customs without being belittled by the likes of you"

Well, it depends on what the customs are doesn't it, and whether they conflict with our core beliefs in this country? Forced marriage and FGM are seen as an expression of both faith and culture in parts of the Muslim world. We don't tolerate them here (anymore) even if they are deeply entrenched practices in some cultures.

I understand why parents want their daughters to wear hijab, but I still look at these children in the playground and think they'd feel more comfortable in the classrooms (which are very hot) with their ears and head uncovered, and to be able to feel the wind in their hair when they are out playing.

I personally think that if men cannot control their sexual urges then it is their eyes and not head which needs covering. I would never ever send my daughter (or son) to an Islamic school because I do think many of the practises are downright sexist.

However...

Everyone has a right to practise his or her religeon of choice. And the OP on this thread is downright rude. I would not like someone else telling me what religeon to introduce my children to. And, likewise I would never consider it my place to tell other parents what religeon I feel might be best for their children.

But, of course, you knew this before you posted... didn't you?

LMHF - I know many, many women who wear hijab entirely of their own choice and that includes in non-Western countries. In fact, I even know women who wear it despite the opposition of their male relatives.

Hang on a minute....I am frequently told that little girls wearing the hijab is just about copying Mummy and her oppressive practices and then I see it is allowed, and is on a uniform list, at a Muslim school. I think I have a right to post it, schools are supposed to be places for children and I feel that restricting a child and imposing this responsibility of being modest so young is really really wrong.

To the moderate Muslims on the thread - I don;t think anyone startd fussing about whether or not you eat hot cross buns or how many times you talk to your imaginary friends a day - I have no problem with any of this stuff (time praying isn't any more time skived out of the working day than smoke breaks, or gossip at the coffee machine, or hiding in the loo just to get away from a ringing phone for a few minutes; regular breaks from work are no bad thing).
What a lot of people object to re the wearing of hijab, niquab etc is the compulsion placed on women (and now little girls, by the look of it) to wear it. When not all women and indeed not all Muslim women want to cover themselves up like this just because of male-invented superstitous bullshit.

What seems to be saying on this thread is that the reason women and girls wear a head scarf is:

1. Sexual modesty because of their religion.
2. It is a cultural habit in a country they have a connection to.
3. Both of the above.

So while small children should not be worrying about sexual modesty, we do not know that is why they are being covered. It may simply be as a cultural habit, and as a cultural habit it is harmless - just a piece of cloth. I work with lots of Muslims and it does seem to mostly be a fashion; it is not a reflection of actual behaviour at all.

I do think a compulsion to cover the head and the legs entirely is wrong (and I hope all of those girls are on compulsory vitamin D supplements to make up for the enforced lack of sunlight to the skin), but it is clear in the slide show that not all the girls do wear head scarves to that school.

The Saudi Arabia thing seems completely irrelevant. This isn't Saudi Arabia and most Muslims in the UK have no connection to Saudi Arabia. It would be like making out that the British are just like the Brazilians because they are both Christian nations, and that we should consider the cultural and religious connotations of clothing in Brazil before we dress our daughters in the morning. I have no idea what the meaning of trousers is in every Christian country in the world.

"I know many, many women who wear hijab entirely of their own choice and that includes in non-Western countries. In fact, I even know women who wear it despite the opposition of their male relatives"

Me too. And one of my friends has just gone to work in Saudi Arabia and has had to go shopping for hijab. I did some surfing and was green with envy at all the gorgeous abayas she will now be able to wear.

If I was a Muslim woman I'd definitely wear one because they look fantastic, abolish the problem of 'bad hair days', and (I imagine)probably give you a pleasurable feeling of moral rectitude and sisterhood with other Muslim women.

But we're not talking about adult women making choices for themselves are we?

I teach in a Catholic school and we have a school uniform hijab.

Posie - you have a tendency to say that anything you don't like causes a child to lose a bit of their innocence. Same with earrings in your view.

I don't think these things cause them to lose their innocence.

Parents who spout their hatred to their kids (and I hope that's something you don't do) cause children to lose their innocence.

I just feel for the poor children. Indoctrination of believing such piffle at such a young age. I hope one day parents will have the intelligence to teach their children about all types of faith, religion etc and let them make their own minds up.

"I hope one day parents will have the intelligence to teach their children about all types of faith, religion etc and let them make their own minds up"

It doesn't generally work that way. Believing in god requires FAITH, not logic, and a strong belief in god is much easier to achieve if you've been indoctrinated from birth to believe that god exists.

Religious parents feel just as much a sense of responsibility to pass on their faith to their children as I do my wishy washing liberal secularism. We are as one!

I'm finding this thread interesting. I'd really like to know from any Muslim women on here:

Why do you wear the Hijab, if you do?

Would you / do you get your daughters to wear it? And from what age?

What do your husbands think about it?

Is there pressure (peer pressure, subtle comments or more obvious pressure) from other muslims for you or your daughters to wear it? I genuinely have no idea.

Thanks in advance.

Posie when are you going to do loads of threads on the Amish? The evil basturds!

You've let them and there frilly hats go for way to long, get on it girl!

I'd love a thread about the Armish! There's lots in their practices I have serious questions about... and yet when I watched that World's Squarest Teenagers programme part of me still wanted to up sticks and move there!

Ah but motherfunster, if you will refer to the classic film Cats and Dogs, you will find that "evil does not wear a bonnet" :o

Sorry on phone and cant do proper links.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish
"Heavy bonnets are worn over the prayer coverings when Amish women are out and about in cold weather, with the exception of the Nebraska Amish, who do not wear bonnets. Girls in some areas may wear colored bonnets until age nine; older girls and women wear black bonnets.[60] Girls begin wearing a cape for church and dress up occasions at about age eight. Single women wear a white cape to church until about the age of thirty. Everyday capes are colored, matching the dress, until about age forty when only black is used."

Blimey I never knew that..!

IMO, yes, you are being unreasonable.

Amish plan to open school in Bristol!

Bloody Amish should bugger off back to Amish land!

TBB....I couldn't agree more.

AS Islam is a worryingly fast growing religion with no great plans to reform, no loud voices expressing any desire to bring it up to date and less misogynist I think all of it's practices are fair game for scrutiny. Seems to me a Muslim protest is more likely in Wootton Bassett against our troops than in the streets of London protesting against the inadequacies and inequality within the religion.

Besides I'm thinking of sending dd(aged 4) off to school with make up and a bra because all little girls should be allowed to dress like Mummy, however inappropriate.

In a Muslim school I don't see the problem.