to think that Muslim Girls should not be wearing headscarves....

[PosieParker]

at primary school?

here

Maisie - You see, you want me to tell you and then you can shake your head further and tell me how wrong and shameful I am.

Why on earth should I engage in such a conversation?

Casserole - There are many, many reasons why women wear hijab, so I can only speak for myself. I primarily wear it as a commandment of faith. But I do actually like wearing it. It stops my ears getting cold, keeps my hair off my face. The indentification as a Muslim is a mixed blessing as while I'm happy to be Muslim and known as one, it means you get a lot of very unpleasant comments and looks in some areas.

You know what Maisie, to me there is nothing more oppressive than the sight of young women out on Friday night with next to nothing on, shivering when its cold in skimpy outfits and teetering about in ridiculous shoes when its all to attract a man who is only interested in sex. You will say its their choice, is it really? They have to do all this in order to get some self worth. Is this not opression? its all about perspective ultimately. I wear hijab because I like it, no one forced me too and no one else in my family wears it. It makes me feel comfortable and I like being identified as muslim, to me it has no connotations of opression. Is that enough of an explanation to you?

Thanks ladies for replying. I really do appreciate it.

GAG - may I ask more? NOT because I want to nit pick, I'd just like to be a bit better informed really. When you say it's a commandment of faith - I've heard lots of people saying the Koran doesn't require women to wear hijab. But is that wrong then? I'm a practicing Christian, so I understand the concept of faith and obedience, and how weird that is sometimes to outsiders. But if you could clear up my confusion on that point I'd be grateful.

I can totally understand what you mean about the identification being a mixed blessing. I am not ashamed of my faith, but I can imagine that it my outfit always immediately revealed it to everyone I walked past that there are days when I would prefer a bit more anonymity on that front.

Party - when you say it makes you feel comfortable, is that because it removes any prospect of you feeling like you are getting unwanted attention from men? Or just comfortable as in it is easy to wear?

Again, thanks both. I hope you don't mind my clumsy questions.

Casserole - Briefly, there is the Quran, which is our holy book and there is the hadith, which is a collection of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

It is in the hadith that it specifies what is to be covered. The Quran specifies the importance of modesty, asking women to draw their veils over their busoms (as headscarves were already commonly worn.)

I seeeeeeeeeee

Thanks for explaining that to me.

Goth - you asked if I was happy, and I answered your question.

Party - the alternative to covering yourself up is not to wear skimpy clothes to attract men. Both are equally ridiculous. There are plenty of other ways to dress which do not bow to oppression or misogyny.

I'm not sure I want to enter into this debate, but I just want to let SolidGoldBrass know that I think she's brilliant, and is putting my her point across wonderfully.

Casserole - By comfortable, I do not mean because it protects me from male attention. I am really not that arrogant about my looks!! From a practical perspective it is easy to wear in that I don't have to worry about my hair looking right or greasy, it is one less thing to worry about! However my main reason for wearing it is that I beleive it is what my religion asks me to do, because I have faith in Allah and believe He knows what is best for me. I understand that to a person with no faith this will sound ridiculous but there is nothing I can say that will make them understand.

Ultimately I am not looking for anyones approval or permission to wear hijab, it is my choice and I am happy with it, the day that I do not want to continue wearing hijab, I will stop wearing it.

Since I have started MNing it has really made me rethink what people I meet on a day to day basis in my very white middle class community think of me. If the views on MN are a reflection of RL then there is a huge chasm between how I am actually perceived by people and how I thought I was perceived. Its a shame because for all the lip service we have to freedom of expression, all they really want is for me to be a clone of them.
.

Partyhats - Your last paragraph is so sad, yet so true.

However, I would say that there are lots on Mn, who don't think like that, but they tend to give these threads a wide berth.

If young girls are brought up to cover up - what exactly ARE the worrying consequences?

I agree with party.I'm not a muslim but I've always covered up. I had a large bust and slim body I wasn't ever comfortable with men constantly looking at my tits so I covered up.

I was never criticised because I covered up in WESTERN clothing. What's the difference between how I dressed and how muslim women dress. It's one thing - muslim dress is far more identifiable.

I now cover up because it's just more comfortable- I'm in middle age. I like it - always have.

You could never see my sexuality and it was fine as it was western, but someone who covers their hair is somehow repressed. I don't get it.

I'm personally love the idea of women portaying themselves how they want and if it means covering hair then so what.

Oh - btw - my dm is asian and wore fuck me hells and halternecks. Each of us was comfortable in the way we portrayed ourselves.

Thanks Party. I wondered if you meant that sort of comfortable, but short of likening your hijab to my trakkie bottoms I couldn't think how to put it!

And I didn't mean the male attention thing in an arrogant way. We had a discussion at our church many years ago about whether it was appropriate for some of us to wear strappy tops - particularly those of us with bigger boobs - as a couple of the younger guys had confessed that they found them quite distracting!! I don't mean it was an official discussion, but a few of us women debated it for some time - how much was their responsbility to keep their minds pure, and how much was up to us as sisters to help them. So that's the sort of thing I was meaning really. I never wore them anyway as they look awful on me

You and GAG both saying that you wear it also as an obedience to what you believe Allah wants of you makes more sense to me now that GAG explained about the teachings. I think non-Muslims are often confused about that point.

At the same time I see the reservations other people have, about in some instances the hijab being used as a tool of oppression. I think that is heightened when we, as white Westerners, often have some Muslim countries portryed to us as countries where there is particular oppression of women. It is hard to separate out the two issues. I'm not saying that's right, just where I think some of it comes from. And I still feel uneasy about children wearing it.

But I do understand more now where you are both coming from, and I wanted to say thankyou for bothering to come back and explain, especially on a thread that has, at times, been hostile, and where you don't don't know me or my motives from anyone else.

Peace, ladies

No, you're right. There is nothing that will make me understand why you, in the privileged position that we all have in a free, liberal society, would want to show any allegiance to a symbol which has become a sign of oppression in other countries. I understand the concept of choice, naturally, but to choose to cover, given the connotations, is something that I will never be able to reconcile with what women in this country have fought long and hard for over the centuries.

SGB your posts are fantastic

Not sure I want to enter the debate, but ime in a school with a very high percentage of Muslim children, I see girls on many occasions struggling with uncomfortable and impractical clothing in PE lessons.

A young girl wearing cropped tracksuit bottoms and long socks pulled over her knees actually complained to me about how uncomfortable she was, but would not roll down her socks as her mother had told her she was not, under any circumstances, to show her legs

If that is not a clear example of the oppression of girls disguised by religious hoo ha I don't know what is