to think that Muslim Girls should not be wearing headscarves....

[PosieParker]

at primary school?

here

I do not read tabloid newspapers, thanks.

I have many liberal Muslim friends, from Iran ( and one South African with Indian parents), who do not cover and wouldn't dream of covering their dds. The fitting in thing is really about prayer, Britain is not set up to incorporate prayer five times a day, the idea of making your child sit and learn each and every word in a long, and boring, book is pretty foreign too. I taught in a school where many Muslim parents could not speak English, despite being here for a long time. Needless to say this is not just a Muslim thing.

I think it's a worrying trend.

if something is a Good Thing, children should not have to start doing it so they will accept it when they are older. If it is a Good Thing, they will accept it anyway, no?

Ahh but to you, the Qu'ran is long, boring and foreign but to us, it is our holy book - we have a duty to read and understand it.

Its even better if we understand it in Arabic to really appreciate the beauty. I have learnt a few verses of the Qu'ran in Arabic and I am truly touched at the beauty of it and how it all rhymes

You certainly sound like a regular reader of tabloid trash may I say

the reading of books is a Good Thing, IMO, I would love to read the koran (and the Torah) as I have read the bible and found it very interesting.

There's an interesting program on some obscure sky vchannel which features an oldish muslim man answering questions from phone ins as appropriate to the Koran- fascinating. I was genuinely rivetted for hours.

Posie - Listen to Puss. We pray five times a day. The country does not fall into anarchy.

Tbh, I'm findingyour reliance on the 'Muslims as perpetual outsiders' trope very dull.

Puss has detailed how Muslims manage to intergrate their faith into daily UK life, but you refuse to listen.

You sound brainwashed, I may say.

I studies Persian poetry and can recite a few pieces....nothing beats a little Puccini for beauty or Shakespeare,

Goth, I don't dispute that there are moderate Muslims...I know a few more enlightened women who don't cover.

I do see more and more little girls covering and think it's quite wrong.

And I haven't said that all Muslims are outsiders but the trend of being more moderate is one that bucks against anti Muslim feeling that is breeding because of illegal wars, 911 and women covering(makes Muslims more identifiable and different).

Surely a little girl all covered is saying, Don't trust men.

Brainwashed

Goth and I are explaining our religion on here because it is clear you have a narrow minded view of it and now you are saying we are brainwashed

Excellent argument! You really should join a local debate team with that

And Shakespeare...out of all the writers in the world....how unoriginal

Who gives a fuck about original I'm not trying to impress a yr4 teacher.

Again you like to insult me but can't seem to take it, laugh all you like, I'm not fifteen it doesn't bother me.

"I can't support any culture that says a man can't control his desires, or that if he doesn't control his desires it is a woman's fault."

Most cultures are like this tbh and I think that all cultures encourage women how to dress - it's called sexism - it's a part of global society just in different guises.

I married in Italy in the catholic church. My dress (which I thought was very modest) caused hugh waves as THEY thought it was very racy. I didn't think so at all.

If I have to go to a catholic church I cover my shoulders - when I go to an Indian wedding, I cover my head but my shoulders and waist and cleavage are on show.
I see little difference to be honest.

Women are controlled my men and religion.

Er Posie - I think you will find you started with the insulting...

And use of the F word...again, what an original way to express yourself

I have been following this thread for quite some time and am disgusted with PosieParker's opinions. You have heard truthful accounts from Muslim women and your only response is to accuse them of being brainwashed! I'm shocked at your stupidity and small-mindedness. Although, from reading your other posts, it does seem like Muslims are on your hit list.

Seriously, you are an offensive troll who cannot seem to understand that there are positive aspects of different cultures and religions. Please just crawl back into your hole as I can't imagine any intelligent MNers wish to continue reading your drivel.

I am not controlled by a thousand year old invention, I can say what I like, when I like....it's called freedom.

We have lots of tiny girls in headscarves at my dc's school.

If I think of it as a symbol of their faith and an expression of their Muslim culture then I have no problem with them wearing them.

But when I start to think about the religious rationale for the wearing of hijab then I do feel uncomfortable, for the same reasons as the OP.

I would be really interested to now how Muslim parents explain this issue to their daughters. What happens when a 6 year old girl says 'Why does God want me to cover my head in public?'

Yes Annie....the religion itself is more an issue than the misogyny, the text is more that the message, the inherent inequality has nothing to do with my objections. Like I've said before I see the human long before the belief system that they follow.

Seems like you also think little girls should cover?

Posie...Spare me the sudo-intellectual speak. You are not nearly as intellectual as you like to make yourself sound. You are a racist at your core and that aspect of your personality comes through clearly.

FYI...I do not support OR oppose the hijab. I am an atheist, but I still firmly believe that different religions should be allowed to practice their beliefs and customs without being belittled by the likes of you.

SWC....my sentiments entirely, you cannot object to a religious/cultural practice without hating that religion/culture, apparently. I recently had to go to a Catholic school thing where Alter boys were involvedc but no girls...Priest was a man etc etc, terrible. The Catholic church even cover up some of the more famous women in it's history to keep them suppressed.

"It is merely copying Mummy and getting them used to idea of hejab for when they are older and they can choose to wear it or not"

Sorry love, but I fear you are being woefully naive. This IS done by uneducated and fervent muslims, thinking they are doing the right thing. I'm not saying these people are extremist, but they are nonetheless fundamentalists. The fear of evil westernisation drives these people to be more and more dedicated.

It ISN'T right to decide to cover a 7yo girl, anymore than it's right to tell a woman she must wear the niqab. It HAS to be her choice , every single time, and at 7yo, I would doubt it IS her informed decision.

It IS conditioning.

As adults we can lead by example, the DD need not cover at all until she personally chooses to wear it... OR NOT....

But that never happens really, not in islamic countries anyway. It is expected of her, and she IS effectively brainwashed into wearing it. If nothing else, more often or not the Father or Brother tells her she is covering whether she wants to or not.

Tee hee the word is pseudo.

Annie....it is not racist to object to misogynist practices.