I am, I know it, I need a kicking: childminders are icky and second-best

[arses]

Okay, so ds is 9 months and I had him down to go to an Outstanding nursery near to where I work. However, despite my best efforts (and up to 6 hours of lessons a week) I have not learned to drive and although I hope to pass before I return in December, I am beginning to realise how impossible it would be for me to commute 50 minutes with a potentially grumpy baby in the back of the car when I still need 100% attention and focus (and in the Winter months, maybe even more so...).

So, I need to rethink childcare. And for many reasons, I know that a childminder would be the best option for us. I work term time, it's cheaper, ds is under 2 and all the research says a home environment is best etc etc

BUT

I just have a terrible secret snobbery about it. I know why. My sister went to a CM and I used to be taken care of there occasionally and remember it as a dour, dark soulless place where the CM's kids bullied us and it stank of fags and no-one ever spoke unless to tell you off.

I was trying to be grown-up and reflective about this experience since having ds, not helped by a trip to a playgroup locally earlier in the year which was populated by CM's and there were about a million kids tearing into eachother Lord of the Flies style while these CM's sat in a circle at the top of the hall drinking tea and bitching about the parents of their charges.

So, please, tell me IABU to think CM's are icky and unpleasant and that I am a terrible snob and that I should fuck off and get over my pfbishness and realise my child isn't the only child in the world etc. I am BU, yes? Please?

arses I will very generously give you the kicking you requested :)

YABVU.... These are actual, y'know, humans you are talking about, not some sort of sub-species!

Most of the CM's i came into contact with at mother and toddler groups were exactly as you describe.

I have only met one, who was so caring, i thought she was the child's mother. Im sure there are a few more like her.

There are plenty of good childminders about, I'm sure there are also bad ones. The same goes with nurseries. Have you asked your friends if they know of any good ones? Word of mouth is usually a reliable recommendation.

As for the driving, I think you need to practice with your child in the car. I too passed after becoming a mother and was very nervous about the children distracting me. It turned out to be fine and the examiner commented on what a safe driver I was on the day I passed my test. You soon become unflappable.

YABU.

IMO, CMs are generally a far better option for young children who need 1:1 or 1:2 care and continuity of care that a nursery can rarely provide. CMs also provide a 'home from home' atmosphere, so children can learn about everyday tasks like helping with chores, cooking, shopping etc, as well as taking them to toddler groups. They are almost always mums themselves which, IMO, makes them far more qualified than your average young childless nursery employee.

Of course, the CMs skills and qualifications will be the deciding factor but there are plenty of ex-teachers and ex-nurses who are really excellent CMs.

Just adding my opinion, I used to work in a baby room in a private nursery. No WAY would I trust my child to a nursery as a result. CM are a much better option.

I chose to send my dd to a cm over a nursery because I wanted her cared for in a home environment. The idea of sending her to a nursery, with several other young babies terrified me!!

My dd is just about to start school and has been with her cm since she was 5mths old. She adores her cm!! She is a happy, sociable and well adjusted little girl. She's used to being around children of all ages, she's goes to toddler groups, park with cm other cm'ing friends and lots of outings. One of the best things imo is that she's used to being at the school because she's being doing drop off and pick up with the cm. She sees the play ground and has had a play, and she knew exactly where she was going for taster days etc, which was more than me!

I visited probably 4 cm's before I found mine. I'd actually said to one cm that dd would go there, but she never returned my call, and I had this appointment booked and knew instantly this was where I wanted dd to go. I just knew.

Thanks for all these responses, I kind of hoped there would be a lot of support for CM's although it does sadden me that my experience of seeing quite bad behaviour is not totally isolated..

I have contacted a few CM's and will get looking..

The ironic thing is that my grandmother, who cared for me when my mum went back when I was little (but not my sister), went on to CM for another family and I have no doubt that she was as loving and fantastic with them as she was with us - I think she went to both girl's weddings in the last few years.

So I don't really see CM's as a subspecies . Just a new mum who finds the idea of putting my child in someone else's home in a different country to the one I grew up in a bit daunting!

My children's CM is worth her weight in gold. She is far better at looking after them than I am.

YABVU, and thankfully you know it, so no need to spell out the research for you. Suffice to say a family environment has been shown to be by far the best replacement for your care when you are away from your child. Children in nurseries have higher levels of stress hormones that last throughout their childhoods, and they catch more illnesses. The cognitive benefits of a more stimulating nursery environment are short lived. If you can find the right one, your baby will be happier with a childminder.

Children whose parents change their childcare arrangements regularly can become stressed and have more difficulty forming attachments. So please consider that it would be best if you could find a childminder that you can commit to and you trust, so that you're not whisking your child off to nursery the minute you've passed your driving test.

You can get a list of childminders from the Ofsted website, or from your Local Authority, and contact the ones that impress you, as well as asking around. Childminders are so heavily regulated now that most of the rubbish ones have stopped minding. As another poster said, more recently qualified minders tend to be more up to date and likely to provide a more "educational" environment if this is what is important to you.

Good luck with finding the right care, passing your test and going back to work!

As others have said it depends on the CM or nursery as the quality of both varies wildly.

I too have seen CM at toddler groups and after seeing how they care for their mindees I would not touch them with a bargepole. I am shocked that they behave like this as surely this is a good place for them to pick up business?! How do they behave when noone is watching?

I have always thought that an excellent CM would be the very best option. Conversley, a poor CM is the worst option- as they could presumably neglect children in a way less likely to occur at a nursery.

If I could not find a CM that I was 100% happy with I would use a nursery.

Something else to consider about driving your DC to the nursery near to your place of work 50 min drive from home, is that after a long day at nursery they are likely to fall asleep in the car. If DC is anything like mine this may result in a grumpy sleepy child who than finally perks up 90 min later and then struggles to go to sleep at bed time. Just a thought.

Good luck with your decision.

We love our cm and so do the DS.

They ask for her when they haven't seen her for a couple of days.

She comes to their birthday parties and buys them presents.

She will take them when they are sick.

She is hugely flexible.

Her own now grown-up children variously cut the children's hair, babysit or fix our car!

You are getting a whole extra family environment for you and your DC, it's brilliant!

It is scary though when you are on mat leave/are a SAHP and you see the hugely varying quality of care given by nannies and CMs. Some are fab really professional and loving but some are utterly substandard. My friend (who is a nanny) after much soul searching actually reported a CM to the child's mother but the mother insisted there was no problem . I dont know what to suggest, but instinctively would feel a good CM preferable to a nursery for an under two year old.

YABVU!

IME CMs are fantastic. We have had four in total over 7 years and with the exception of one who I would rate as 'fair to middling' (to quote my Maths teacher!), they have all been exceptionally good, take their work very seriously and practice to a high standard.

IMO a nursery is never the place for a 9 month old child, outstanding or not. They are too little, require nurturing, loving care in a home environment from someone who really gets to know them.

Your experience of CMs during your childhood sound to me to be quite extreme and very unpleasant and this situation is clearly 'pressing your buttons' - perhaps you need to explore how this is making you feel a bit...

I hope you manage to find some childcare that suits you all. Visit some CMs - hopefully you will be very pleasantly surprised. MPD

YABU.

Like you, before children I naively assumed that a nursery was 'better' because it cost more, and somehow a CM was second rate.

So when I had DD1, I spent hours seeking out the best nursery, and sent her to an OFSTED outstanding one. She did okay there, she went through a rough patch of crying when I took her there, but this got better, and then she went happily, but was never ecstatic about going to nursery. When she changed rooms at 3, she didn't settle in the new room (not the nursery's fault at all, it was more to do with her home life) and I took her out of the nursery.

With DD2, I took her to a childminder, and it was the best thing I ever did. She cried once, when I dropped her off, but after that one time - she never cried again, and has always gone happily to her CM. She absolutely adores her CM, and asks to go sometimes at the weekend / during the holidays.

My biggest regret was not sending DD1 to the same childminder. DD1 liked nursery, but never loved going there. DD1 and 2 both love going to the CM. I should have done it the first time.

In my case, my children have had superior care at the CM

YABU of course
DD1 went to a "very expensive nursery", she was fine, and now 9 is thriving.
So of course when I had DD2, the plan was to send her to the same "very expensive nursery".
However, different circumstances, now a single parent, less money, working part time, meant this was not possible.
On a personal reccomendation I found a lovely CM round the corner. DD2 is nearly 3, and has been going there since she was 5 month old. The CM is almost part of our family, I know she (and her DH) genuinely love DD2, she is kind and loving (if a bit chaotic ), but flexible and easy going, with all the shit XH flung at me, I couldnt have managed without her, and am so grateful for her. She also has DD1 if neccessary and they both love going there. No sharing drinks

Would always vote for a CM now, you just have to find the right one :)

Loving all these stories of conversions!

Again, any tips on finding the right one other than just gut instinct?

I know there are lists of questions online but they seem like the Spanish inquisition to me.

Is it possible to ask for sickness record . How do you cope if they are off sick? If there's no fall back.. or how do you organise a fall back ifyswim?

I phoned one yesterday that seems LOVELY. And another that seemed okay. Also one round the corner that was just plain weird: 'how
long have you lived there?' (me - 3/4 years), 'so you know me then?' (me - erm, no)
'you mean you don't walk down this way to the shop?' (me: no )

Fingers crossed for the lovely ones!

Mine has never missed a day sick in almost 3 years, not one! She has also tajen mine poorly, cold/cough, and even with a vomiting bug (kept her in a different room, all wrapped up on the settee), no way on earth would a nursery do this.
I was lucky, mine was recommended to me by a mum at DD1's school, and I knew as soon as I met her that she was right, mainly because she interacted with DD2 in such a lovely natural way from the start :)

My cm recently gave up work. I cried and she cried when we had to move on. She has been such a massive part of our family. I cannot begin to describe what she has done for dd and for us as a family. I could spend all night singing her praises. :)

She was more like an auntie than a cm. She has given dd such a boost to her confidence and social skills. So much so that dd felt confident last week when starting preschool.

some cms have a 'backup' cm with whom they have reciprocal arrangements, with parents' agreement etc

alibubbles'a list is v v good :

How long have you been working with children?

What training have you had? Any qualifications? Are you part of a network, achieved a quality assurance qualification, look at registration certificate, insurance details, business use for car. First aid must be no more than 3 years old, food hygiene certificate, Certificate in Childminding practice or NVQ 3, Contracts and record forms

Do you enjoy being with children and why?

Can I look around, see the rooms and outside play space? If there is no outside play space - how will you make sure my child gets the chance to play outside?

Where will my child rest?

What kind of food and drink will you give? Can I see a menu?

What will my child do all day?

How do you encourage good behaviour?

Will my child be with a regular group of children? How old are they? How will their timetable fit in with my child?

How will you make sure I know how my child is getting on?

What hours is she open?

How much does she charge?

What about when my child is sick, holidays, days off

What do you do in an emergency?

When was her last Ofsted, can you see the report?

Top 10 Quality Pointers

When you visit possible childcare options, look for these Quality Pointers:

Are the children calm, safe, happy and busy?

Do children play and talk together?

Is the childminder listening to the children and answering them carefully?

Is the childminder friendly and proud of her work?

Is she joining in joining in with what the children are doing?

Are there lots of fun activities planned to help children learn and play? Can children plan some of these activities themselves?

Are there plenty of clean toys and equipment for children to use?

Is the premises clean, well kept and safe for children with a fun outside play area (or will the child go to parks and other places regularly)?

Do parents have plenty of chances to say what they want for their children?

If there are other things you want to know, don't be afraid to ask. Good childminders expect you to ask questions and will be happy to answer them.

Always take up references. You could ask for names of other parents to talk to about the service

Listen to your child and find out more if he/she is unhappy
Always trust your own feelings about your childcare - you know your child best

HTH x x x

Arses don't worry - all 3 DCs at 3 CMs over the last 13 years - been totally wonderful for them. The other children there become like other siblings, it is so great for them to be in a homely environment etc. i have found 3 fab Cms in one village so there are loads out there and often they all know eah other and have days out together.

If they are sick they have to have the back-up plan not you... that's why they network so much so if there's a crisis they can get back up form another person. This has worked really well in our village; I have droppd off DCs at one and picked them up at another when another child was taken ill and needed to go to hospital.

zero sick days with my former cm in two years. If her own son was unwell he would generally spend the day with his granny so that mindees were not let down.

He had chicken pox once when my dd was due to go there. It was agreed between me and cm that as she had already had it she could still go, but cm had my agreement that the television would be on to entertain her ds (it was usually fairly limited) :)

What she did for us during the snowy weather was incredible. took my other daughter on the school run (and I had to force payment on her for that extra help) The two little mindees she put on a sledge as it was a struggle with the buggy.

Arses its worth bearing in mind that the mixed ages that CMs look after can be a mixed blessing.

My exCM had a lot of older primary school age kids as well as preschoolers. After school her house was a bit hectic as a result.

CMs can take up to 6 kids age 8 and under, but there is NO restriction on the number of kids age 8 and older. Just something to ask the CM about when you initially visit and to keep an eye on, as the number/ages of kids a CM looks after may well change over time.

The other thing is that if your kids dont get on with the minded kids/the CMs own kids you may have a problem. (However this is more of an issue with the older school age ones than toddlers IME)

Done childminders and nursery....nursery wins for me. Tried childminders twice and unfortunately, although they were kind and very nice, it was going to nursery that the DC's really enjoyed.

my insurance goes up to 12 children - so 6 over 8's and 6 under 8's

so there can be a limit

I couldn't imagine caring for 12 children mind

I have had 2 childminders, had to leave the first as moved to new area.

Both are Mary Poppins in my eyes, wonderful ladies who treat my children so well, even had a friend comment who saw them out with her (she didn't know friend) and friend commented to me that she treat them like her own at the park.

Kudos to all good childminders, they do so much for development, my two have come on heaps and bounds, have fantastic social skills and learn new things every day.

I wish I didn't have to leave them, but love the fact they are cared for in a similar way to myself, go and see some childminders and you will realise that some are absolutely wonderful !