I am, I know it, I need a kicking: childminders are icky and second-best

[arses]

Okay, so ds is 9 months and I had him down to go to an Outstanding nursery near to where I work. However, despite my best efforts (and up to 6 hours of lessons a week) I have not learned to drive and although I hope to pass before I return in December, I am beginning to realise how impossible it would be for me to commute 50 minutes with a potentially grumpy baby in the back of the car when I still need 100% attention and focus (and in the Winter months, maybe even more so...).

So, I need to rethink childcare. And for many reasons, I know that a childminder would be the best option for us. I work term time, it's cheaper, ds is under 2 and all the research says a home environment is best etc etc

BUT

I just have a terrible secret snobbery about it. I know why. My sister went to a CM and I used to be taken care of there occasionally and remember it as a dour, dark soulless place where the CM's kids bullied us and it stank of fags and no-one ever spoke unless to tell you off.

I was trying to be grown-up and reflective about this experience since having ds, not helped by a trip to a playgroup locally earlier in the year which was populated by CM's and there were about a million kids tearing into eachother Lord of the Flies style while these CM's sat in a circle at the top of the hall drinking tea and bitching about the parents of their charges.

So, please, tell me IABU to think CM's are icky and unpleasant and that I am a terrible snob and that I should fuck off and get over my pfbishness and realise my child isn't the only child in the world etc. I am BU, yes? Please?

My CM lives in a million pound house and drives the children around in a Mercedes, they have the most amazing food, all home cooked, they have a fabulous selection of high quality toys in a dedicated room with child size equipment.

They go on exciting trips, visits and outings I have 2 DDs with her and she has looked after US as a family for 8 years.

If she hadn't been able to take DD2, I would have given up work, a highly paid job.

Her children are grown up, she doesn't need to work, but she believes that small children need lots of home based care and attention, she is firm, fair and fun and they clearly adore her in return.

YABU

Yes YABU.

I saw a few when I used to work, like nurseries there are good and bad.

I had a fantastic CM. All the children she had/still has are through recommendations.

She takes them out to library, park, toddler groups etc. The children always came home with drawings, painting,craft items. They used to bring home cakes/biscuits they had baked.

She also taught them how to write their names amongst other things. She would also spend loads of time reading to them.

Thanks for the reasonable responses that I am being unreasonable

Seriously, those of you who are offended by me asking a question in a really obviously tongue-in-cheek, knowing way need to relax a little bit.

I don't think it's particularly odd that the fact that my memories of being in a pretty poor childminders impact upon my judgement about this form of childcare and, you know, I did mention that I have been trying to be rational about this as an adult. I wish the CM's I'd met at the local playgroup had been a little bit more professional and then, perhaps, I wouldn't be carrying this bias: however, I did see and hear some pretty shocking behaviour towards children of the 'shut your whinging' variety.

And to the very helpful poster who suggested I give up work, why THANK YOU! I had never even considered that! Is there a bingo card for childcare related posts on MN that has 'well you should just stay at home then' on it?

YABU but I think you know that already..... honestly i felt really nervous about the childminder thing... it just didnt feel "right" them being in someones house who I didnt know.... however where i live the council have somehting called FIS (family information service) that gives you loads of info about childminders with places avaible near your house. I visitied a few and one did feel a bit weird ( i only saw 5) but most were v friendly and helpful and the one we finally settled with is brilliant. They are really committed to child development and they go out to places like farms, playparks, soft play centres every day (somthing that most nurseries cant do). MY DS used to go to a nursery be we switched to childminder because of more flexible hours and also I found that DS kept getting really ill (suspect that was just beacuase of the number of children at nursery and them not being able to go out and get fresh air much). DD now goes with DS to childminder and Im officailly a convert ! good luck

If I were you I would visit a few childminders AND nurseries. Both are totally acceptable forms of childcare and to make a prejudgement on one or the other is pretty unreasonable.

FWIW, my dc both went to the same nursery, where they formed bonds with the staff who cuddled them, encouraged them and cared for them exactly the way I asked. Now dd is at school and goes to a childminder while ds is at nursery and this childminder is perfect for my dd- she is attentive, loving and caring; both dc love their childcare.

You just need to get one who isn't shit, obviously.

I have used childminders and nurseries over the year. Have made dreadful errors in choice twice- once with a well known nursery chain and once with a childminder. In both cases I took my child out (different children) very quickly.

The other childminders/nurseries we have used (two of each) have been brilliant.

My children went to a CM who was awful, she didn't watch them properly in the park one day and they had an accident which I had to have a talk to her about, then the next day she got her son in law to pick them up from school in his van which had no seat belts and just one seat in the front to sit on, her other son was in the house smoking weed when I went to pick them up the house was full of smoke, needless to say I had to stop work the next day, remove them from her care and report her.
Since removing my children from her care the things they now tell me used to happen outrage me.
Having said that I have recently completed a childcare course and although some people there I wouldn't leave my children with there were people there I would trust completely, it's like any profession there will be people who are only in it for the money, you need to look around until you find the right person, make sure they are registered and check there rating.

You have to find the right one.

We live very rurally - there are about 5 childminders in a large area. The one my DD goes to is the only one I would consider by a longshot - the rest do just sit around at toddlers sighing when their charges want them to look at a tower they have spent ages building because it interrupts their conversation.

However our childminder is brilliant. I couldn't ask for more - full of energy, enthusiastic, switched on, positive, flexible. I couldn't leave a 9 month old at nursery but the 9 month old at DD's childminder gets a loving and caring home environment.

I think nurseries are as good or bad as thei staff in just the same way. My other DC attended two nurseries, one was brilliant one less so.

It might be worth expanding your geographical search parameters if you don't like the childminders near you. But maybe there is one half way to work - which would make the drive less stressful?

OP - don't assume all the childminders are the same. My dd went to a CM when she was 3 months and I went back to work FT.

As in many things, I would say you get what you pay for. DD's childminder was far more expensive than a nursery (the CM charged more as she only had a few charges), and she was huighly sought after, but dd was well loved and cared for there. DD is 14 now, went to the CM for over 3 years, and is still facebook friends with the chilminder now.

There are some brilliant CMs out there, don't tar them all with the same brush.

YABU, love!

My DD is with her grandma so I haven't had the conundrum myself, but were I to to have to choose it would be childminder all the way. Nurseries conjure up an image of a a big noisy hall with strip lighting, lots of bored teenagers in polo shirts, lots of noise and garish plastic. Childminders conjure up homeliness and gentleness.

Mind you our village CM lives in a Georgian rectory, drives a landrover, has acres of garden, with chickens and a beautiful wooden swing set and tree house and is very very middle class! She also has four absolutely beautiful- natured and beautifully-behaved children of her own. She is a friend of ours and DD loves going there. If grandparents ever fall through - no question, would send DD there like a shot.

Am sure it depends totally on the nursery and the CM in question!

Thanks Loie159, exactly the kind of thing I want to read.

I think it's the anonymity of it that I find difficult. If I had any personal recommendations to go on I would feel so much happier, I'm just new at this and the Ofsted reports of CM's seem so much less detailed than those for nurseries.

I don't really want anything fancy for him really, just someone who will be warm and responsive to him, chat to him a bit and keep him safe.

I know that the majority of people in our lives were strangers once, just seems such a daunting prospect to hand over your baby to be cared for in a stranger's home.

Nurseries, by virtue of being more commercial, seem more regulated and 'official' and though this is the last thing I want for him emotionally, it makes me feel more secure from a safety perspective.. but that's all just because of our paranoid culture of stranger danger, I think..

I think TBH, there are a lot of people who secretly feel like the OP, and then children end up in nurseries by default despite the research which shows they are often not the ideal environment for under 2s.

Arses - "a childminder" in the abstract can be kind of scary, whereas someone a nursery, which probably has a website, and a glossy brochure isn't (after all we're all consumers these days!). But I promise you, once you have found the right childminder, or even once you have looked at a few, it will all seem much clearer and much less scary. FWIW, DD1 went to a nursery, probably at least in part for some of the reasons above, but DD2 has the most marvellous childminder and it is SOOOO much better it's untrue!

"My sister went to a CM and I used to be taken care of there occasionally and remember it as a dour, dark soulless place where the CM's kids bullied us and it stank of fags and no-one ever spoke unless to tell you off."

Well, tell you what! Find one that isn't like that. You never know there might be one...

My CM was 100x better than any nursery I could imagine. Mine were babies when they went there and she was perfect for them - at the time I couldn't have imagined using a nursery. When DS#2 was 2 she retired and we used a nursery which was fantastic for him at that age.

Email me and I will show you my FB Childminding page (all Parents have approved and add to it) I dont want to put a link on here, but it may well show you what I and nearly every CM I know do.

nanny 475 at hotmail dot com.

Going to blow my own trumpet, but this is the review left yesterday, from the little boy who left after his second time with me ( Mum stopped working then maternity.so he left for a 18 months)

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

It is Harrys last day today with Shoshe, and it is a sad day! You have done SO much for my little boy, you have helped him turn into a helpful, polite boy. You have done miracles with his food likes/dislikes, (mainly likes!), his fine motor technique skills, his social skills which has helped him build a special bond with Little Brother, and many more other things. You have been there for me with a cup of tea when things have become very stressful. Harry is gonna miss everyone and being with you all, and the other childminders and kids. You won't be getting rid of us that easily as we will come and visit you and join you on trips out!!!! THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING. XXXX Mum, Dad, Harry and Little Brother

I am not saying there is some bad ones out there, there are bad nurseries as well.

But go see some CM's. you may well be surprised.

I had an excellent childminder who took my son out virtually every day she had him whether to a park or some activity.

He was in a homely atmosphere with just her daughter of the same age and he received a lot of attention.She would often make things with the children, it was all very caring and imaginative.

Some childminders are poor just as some nurseries are, but I preferred a childminder because I wanted him kept in a family environment. He went to nursery when he was a bit older.

honestly do speak to the council; the service we have down here is amazing and v efficient.... i do think like all things you have to research it and go with your gut. I think (this is my personal thoughts only!) that nurseries can be better for older children but they are quite infelxible (lunch times, naps etc), and have to be becuase of the number of children they have to look after in one go.... but I do think you need to visit some CM before you condemn the idea. YANBU to worry about your childs happiness and safety but YABU to put all CM in one pot!

Yes Bramshott, exactly.. I know I am not alone in my prejudice because most of the new mums (first-timers, like me) that I have met at groups etc are sending their children to nurseries because of the fear of the unknown wrt childminders.

For me, part of the reason I was desperate to bring ds to where I work was because colleagues of mine work observing in nurseries and I knew that I could get an objective personal recommendation. The Ofsted seal of approval didn't hurt, either.

And on top of this, like you mention, I was beguiled by the glossy brochures and websites with pictures of happy looking kids and bumph about the EYFS with confident, professional sounding lingo..

In my heart, I know that I don't want 'glossy' childcare (though not doing down the nursery I chose, I do think it's probably excellent as a nursery setting): I want safe, homely care. I just don't know how you discern whether you are in the company of a good or a shit CM: my mother clearly didn't think, 'oooh yes, I'll find the crappest person I can and dump my kids on her mwah hah hah@.

To those who said they have had bad and good experiences with CM's, were there warnings/indicators of either? Is it all just down to gut instinct?

I don't have that facility here and feel underconfident in being able to discern whether they are a good or a shit one based on chatting with them. I have spoken to a few and am in the process of arranging

Ooops extraneous hanging paragraph that I had edited made its way to the bottom there...

I chose a CM over nursery for DS because of the home environment etc etc.

I visited to quite a few before I found the right one (about 10).

She is wonderful and we love her and the setting she offers. She and her DH co-mind so DS has a family setting similar to home with a few other children to play with and learn from.

The home is always clean and tidy, decent meals and healthy snacks provided.

Each child has goals (in line with Early Years Foundation) and an annual review.

She offers emergency/overnight care if it is needed (e.g. when I go into labour with second child).

They go on interesting outings that tie in with a theme they are working on.

Most importantly, they clearly love DS and vice versa.

We really could not have asked for better care of DS.

It does take time to find the right person and I hope you will be pleasantly surprised.

I totally understand your being nervous, as I've never left my ds with anyone other than my parents... but, when I was a child (about 25 years ago) I had the most wonderful childminder who I have many happy memories of. She's at least 70 now, so not working anymore, but I know that if I had to leave ds in someone's care I wouldn't have to think twice about it being her. She was gentle, kind, and loving (maybe can't expect 'loving', but some are), and I still see her in my parents' home town and think about how lovely she was with me, when, in a way, she wasn't obliged to be. As others have said, I think you just need to find the right one. It's totally understandable that after your experience you'd imagine the worst, but it could be a really lovely thing for your dc.

Can you tackle the driving problem instead?
Does your son have any experience of being driven around? He might not be disruptive - driving is one of the few things almost certain to calm mine down.

I hated driving and took 3 goes to pass, but lots and lots of practice later I'm now fine.

I too overhear things I really don't like from CMs at the park and playgroup - but then I'm not in the nursery staffroon, so have no opportunity to hear them bitching.

I understand your anxieties as I have witnessed what you have and worse at one particular playgroup I used to go to.

That has actually influenced me and I have never used one.

However, a couple of my friends have been delighted with their childminder and their children have thrived there. You could go by word of mouth and visit if you are unsure.