"And then on the 3rd night he just slept through" <hollow laugh> <rocks> <weeps>

[YunoYurbubson]

It would seem that everyone else in the world had to do sleep training for three, or at the most four, nights and then their children miraculously slept through for twelvty-ten hours every night thereafter and there were rainbows and cherubs and fluffy bunnies and everyone lived happily every after. I KNOW this is true because I have been trawling the MN archives.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG???

I am not even a sleep training type but have had to do something for fear of dying from lack of sleep.

Details:
Ds is 2 1/2. He spends every night lolling about on the boob sort of feeding and dozing and occasionally I manage to roll him off me and I grab 20 minutes sleep before he realises and howls in indignation and we begin with the rolling, lolling, dozing, feeding thing again.

History:
We have tried various sleep solutions before (NCSS, Baby Whisperer and another one, I forget which) but have unfortunately not had the balls to see them through, thus neatly teaching ds that if things are not going his way he just has to keep screaming at us and eventually we will capitulate.

And Now:
We've done 8 nights.
The rule is 'No Milk Until Morning'.
If he wakes up I fix whatever has woken him (thirsty / sore feet / leaked nappy etc) and settle him back into bed.
I give him cuddles if he is sad.
He clings pitifully to my neck for hours, erupting into hysterical sobbing if I gently encourage him back into his bed.
He is still begging for milk every night.

If I ever manage to get him camly in to his bed and lying down he dozes off pretty easily, it's getting him there that is so painful.

Last night I got about 2 hours sleep total, and those were on the floor of his bedroom.

Do I continue with this?
Do I do things differently?
What do I do?
SERIOUSLY, what do I do?

Yep, agree with Lenin, they do grow out of it. As I said, dd1 was fed to sleep till 3.5 - she also coslept till past that (and till after her twin sisters had started cosleeping too). After some nights where we all tried sleeping in the one bed (plus bedside cot), dh started snugging her down in her own bed. Between 3.5 and 4 she just got better at sleeping, to the point where she was staying in her own bed all night without snuggles, but without us actively stopping it.

It puzzles me, this 'I won't do anything that makes my child get sad and cry' notion. What on earth happens when they don't want to put their seatbelt on? Don't want to leave the shop without sweets? Get older and want to stay out until midnight, drink, take drugs, hang out with a gang of hooligans?

Please grasp that part of being a parent is doing what is RIGHT for the child regardless of whether they like it or not, and regardless of how much they scream and shout. Leaving aside your needs (and I sympathise with how exhausted you must be feeling) HE needs his sleep. By condoning this behaviour with cuddles and mixed messages, you are depriving him of something that is physiologically as valuable as food. You are hampering his development.

Sorry. I know this is blunt. But you are the adult, and must start acting like one, for his benefit.

When DS was 3.5 and was still waking up for milk at night (several times) the milk bottle fairy came and took the bottles away,left a nice new tractor as a swap. DS thought this was great and never asked for milk again.... is worth a try.
Also think it is good to talk to DS about bedtime and sleep and the changes you will be making, he will understand more than you think.
Good Luck

My DD only weaned herself off BF when I got pregnant with my DS (now there's a radical idea!!)

She was 3.5 and since she was 2 or so I had been nagging on/gently explaining than BF was for babies and she was a big girl now. Only when she realised that there was a baby did she stop. I think she felt it wasn't hers any more.

I realise this is completely unhelpful.

I suppose I just mean to say I can sympathise, I haven't had much sleep at all in the last five years. And to any one else who's telling you you're doing it all wrong, I think it's easy to underestimate just how persistent and needy some children are, if your own are somewhere nearer to 'normal' in this respect. My DS is much more easy going than my DD and at 7 months is sleeping better than my now 4 yo.

Sorry again for being unhelpful, I'm possibly the least suitable person in the world to give anyone sleep advice.

I agree with Kudokan.It is up to you as a parent to teach your child how to sleep.He must be so grumpy and tired in the daytimes.

Nutritionally most children don't need any milk from six months old.

If I were you I'd be down the Sleep Clinic.Millpond is a well known one.

Agree with kodokan.

Bit hard for the boob fairy to take Yuno's breasts away. Maybe popping a tractor up out of her bra next time he asks for milk is worth a shot though.

Yuno I am in the same situation with my dd. I did manage to nightwean her for a month over the summer but then she was ill and we're back to milk through the night. Even when she was not having milk she woke through the night still and had water so I didn't really get any more sleep.

We are going to try another tactic soon. Maybe I'll see you in the Sleep/BF topic and hopefully things will get better.

And I totally agree with your title that everyone I've talked to says sleep training works in 3 days but it didn't for us. 5 weeks of no milk at night...still woke asking for milk every 2/3 hours.

'Never had a problem with DS1 and his seatbelt.'

Sigh... neither did I, it's illustrative. But if I had had, I certainly wouldn't have wrung my hands, pointlessly negotiating and pleading with a toddler, or cancelled the trip, or whatever.

I would have been sympathetic - 'I'm sorry you feel that way, but we have to get to school/ work/ shops so we can eat - and afterwards you can run around at the park...' - and then overruled his protests so the rest of us could get on with our lives.

OP, you mentioned another child - is it fair to this child that his/her mum has been completely shattered for years now, and likely to be so for the foreseeable future? You must balance the needs of yourself and your other child with his desire for extra night cuddles.

I like the idea of a boob fairy Bosom, would she make mine bigger!!!

Do not underestimate how much the eczema could be affected his sleep. My DS didnt have a full nights sleep for many years due to his skin condition.

He is not my biological child so I did not bf but if I did I am sure I would have been feeding him all night too!

If nothing else works he may be able to take a course of oral steriods. This WILL get rid of the eczema and may allow you a period of calm. The eczema will probably come back at some point (not definate) but at least you can use the time to work on his sleep.

I am not anti extended bf or co sleeping but it must make things more complicated. I wouldnt have a clue how to resolve it in these circumstances.

Hope you get some sleep soon.

Been in a very similar boat to yours - sorry if there is not one around and I have missed this, but getting DH/DP to do more at bedtime really helped us. I still feed DD at bedtime but then we have a chat/story afterwards. DH did it with a bottle for a few nights and also went through when she cried in the night rather than it being me. Worked eventually!

Caz how long did that take? That is our next plan. Yuno's dh works away a lot so not an option for her.

Rotool I think the boob fairy would not be your friend as she takes boobs away forever!

Aaah only 90 posts before someone said "rod for your own back"...

OP take a look here for some reassurance!

If I was you, I would continue with the no milk at night thing. Make sure he is not hungry before he goes to bed, happy, bath, story etc, make the routine as nice as possible and then put him to bed. Every time he cries for you or gets out of bed then calmly put him back in bed, say 'night night' or whatever and leave the room. Repeat as many times as is needed, you might be up and down the stairs 50 times the first couple of nights but then it should work. And that's what people mean when they say 'on the 3rd night he slept through'. You need to stick with it, never give in!

And that's not leaving them to cry, every time he is up, you go up, so he won't feel ignored.

I was crap with co-sleeping (co-keeping-awake more bloody like) with my first two, and couldn't harden myself to 'cope' with controlled crying. My DD didn't sleep through the night once until she was 4 1/2 by which point I already had DS2, and he didn't sleep through until he started reception at 4yrs 4 months. With DS2 I made damn sure he learnt to go to sleep right from being a baby, by himself (without crying) and he slept through from 11pm-6.30am by 7 WEEKS old. I'm currently 21 wks pg, and will most definately be being tough evil mummy again, if only for my own sanity. With the first 2 I spent the best part of 7 and a half years solid with hardly any sleep, and wound up practically cracking up through the strain of it all. Isn't going to happen again. And TBH in the end, the only way I DID get the first 2 to sleep through was to do the return to bed method as championed by Tanya Byron. Had to have nerves of steel and the patience of 10 saints, but 2 weeks and it worked. Good luck, I think you need it!!

I must stop clicking on these threads.
However while I'm here.

EVERYTHING makes a rod for your back - cuddle them - they'll only want more so don't bother. Play with them - don't bother - they'll only want more. In fact just leave them to it. What's the point?
Or better still make a rota and allocate an hour in the day for the dc - no more mind or you'll make a rod for your own back.

oof.

p.s. Yuno I wish you all the best and hope you find a way forward that suits you all very soon x