to think I've done enough and she should get over this?

[sarahhuggersack]

Name change.

Good friend who I've known 15 years. Never a cross word between us and I've done a lot for her when times haven't been great.

Made a thoughtless comment to her a couple of months back. Realised straight away that I'd upset her so dropped a card in next day to say how much I valued our friendship and hoped she would forgive me for being so thoughtless. Also apologised to her next time I saw her, although she was obviously sulking.

Been away most of the summer and thought she would have got over it by now. Couldn't believe it when I saw her in town this week and she completely ignored me when I said hello. Spoke to her DP today who talked to her. Apparently she will stop sulking "when I've apologised properly".

AIBU to think that this is just control freakery on her part, tell her that I have already apologised and say WTF do you expect me to do? Or do I send another card? She won't answer the phone to me and ignored a couple of texts I sent while I was away.

Okay even I'm softening now I think your post struck a cord as my otherwise wonderful DH, can sometimes be a bit abrupt or abrasive and struggles to understand why people can't always just forgive and move on (but he's getting better )

not being unreasonable at all - and if I was her I would be examining why I had took it so badly.

Good grief! After your further explanation of your card and two more apologies I am thing that she is the one being unreasoable.

Bless you lot. You've made me feel so much better, even those of you who have told me I was an idiot, because of course I was.

I knew it from the moment I opened my big mouth, but you were right to remind me of it because I was starting to get cross with her, and feel sorry for myself. I don't have any right to do that.

After reading all your replies really carefully I feel that I have probably done all I can and she is the one who needs to respond. Hopefully I can get her DP to persuade her of that, and her kids and mum are still talking to me as well.

Failing that, I shall do what "echt" suggested: Turn up at her house as a singing telegram. (Loved that echt - the first laugh I've had over all of this in months!) I can't sing a note in tune, so maybe she will give in if I persist? Sorry, being silly now ...

If you do really want up remain friends ( and I'm not sure that I would in your position, but obviously don't know enough about the friendship to be able to comment) perhaps you could write her a letter, explaining some of the things you wrote in your most recent post here and also perhaps reiterating your apology (again!). it might be easier than doing it face to face, which can sometimes go off track and you end up not saying everything you intend. And at least then you'll know you've tried your best and you won't be left wondering whether you should have tried again.

Well, she may be BU, and manipulative, or it may have touched issues which are v deep and 'her stuff', you know her best, so may have an idea - but it sounds as if you have apologised as best you can, and that which ever it is with her, the ball is in her court.

Very sad. But if she is losing it with her dd like that, maybe she does have parenting issues, maybe she is terrified that she is turning into her own mother, or some other raw nerve. If she's being manipulative to this degree, maybe she is doing her best to fend off the 'raw nerve' by blaming you - whatever it is, sadly, you probably can't do much ore, and maybe rather than her DH ficussing on trying to get her to talk to you, maybe he should maybe talk to her about why it made her react the way she did.

I would have hit the roof if you had said that to me. It's just so patronising and basically says "you're a shit mother" so I can understand why she was pissed off.

However. I would honestly leave it now.

Clearly she wants you to crawl on bended knee, begging and pleading forgiveness.

I wouldn't, I'm afraid. One apology and they accept it or they don't.

If you had apologised as much to me, and I liked you and valued our friendship, I would accept the apology.

I think you should just get on with your life. If you bump into her husband you can say "I have apologised all I can, she has clearly decided to not accept it, there's nothing more I can do."

and keep smiling and saying hello when you see her.

Sarah- YANBU- we all mess up and it takes a big person to apologise as you have done and very sincerely too. Friendships change over the years and maybe this has changed beyond repair. Even if she does come round there will be an imbalance of power as she would have made you grovel to get back into her good books. You've done your best. Everyone deserves a second chance- but she obviously doens't think so in your case.

My only other thought about her "losing it" was that maybe the thing she was shouting about was an issue that had cropped up about 250 times earlier with her DD. Or was it a one off? I only say this as I am gentle but firm on a 1st offence up to 3 times, but after that I get a bit stricter. Eg I tell my DS1 up to 10 times a day (for the last YEAR) not to throw himself on the furniture, so a stranger walking in might think I was more annoyed than I should be at a bit of acrobatics. Just trying to imagine what's going on with your friend that's all.

Anyway, YANBU. You're not getting any pleasure out of this friendship are you? xx

I'm surprised at all the posters who've said they'd have been outraged had a close friend said to them what the OP said. To me, it sounded like she was on the child's wavelength and, although I'd have been upset to hear it said to me, deep down I'd know she was right and would certainly not jeopardise a friendship over it.

sarahhuggersack - my friends and I are all very close, we wouldn't think twice about saying something like that to each other.

If she's like this with you and you've apologised (several times) it's no wonder she's having trouble with her DD.

Quite frankly, she sounds like bloody hard work - it's time she realised she is being wayyyyyyyyyyy over the top and apologised to you!

the secondcoming

Hey? A post disappeared from TheSecondComing? I am seeing things?

Anyway, it was my first post on AIBU and I have am really grateful to you all.

I think you have done enough and should just leave it.

She is upset and needs to resolve her own issues. If you keep trying to make up, you force her into a corner and she comes up with unreasonable demands like 'proper' apologies.

What is needed now is time. Maybe one day, in a less loaded moment, she will feel able to smile at you for a split second. You can then take it from there.

I don't really see you had anything to apologise for, from what you've said.

Should have gone:
Her:"Shouty,shout,shout"
You:"Don't shout, not wise"
Her:"Yikes, you think thats the problem. "

Are you sure there's nothing more to what you actually said when you criticised her shouting ?

After your last post I would say she is being really silly. So you made a hasty judgement and apologised profusely from the heart...what does she want blood!

Leave it and carry on with your life.

She walked off???? and she has replied like that to your attempts to make amends??? Blody hell, you are being very very unreasonable, that cow doesn't deserve more attention. Stop apologising, you have done more than you should.

It is she who doesn't deserve your friendship, stop acting as the guilty part. No real friendship dies out of constructive criticism. Actually, wasn't there a quote saying "Best friends would rather hurt each other with the truth then destroying each other with lies"

She was being unnecessarily mean with her DD, obviously you could have tell her "it's ok, everybody shouts, I understand you are tired, you have had a bad day, etc etc. but that doesn't help her in the long term does it?

Maybe she doesn´t want to be friends any more?

I think as others have said you can´t do more.

Well I am on the side of 'only give parenting advice if specifically asked'. Proffering opinion otherwise is a veritable minefield.

Maybe the friend is outraged because there is plenty of 'well-meaning advice' she's wanted to sock OP's way but has bitten her tongue.

I would love to hear the friend's side because I'll wager there is a lot more to this.

BUT agree you've done all you can to mend the situation Sarah so you just have to leave it now.

Sarah, I can't see from this thread but do you have children yourself? I think it would make a difference to me if a childless friend remarked on my parenting rather than a fellow parent. Even so, parenting criticism is usually off limits like politics and religion.

Having said all that- your apologies remain more than adequate and YANBU for making so much effort to make amends.

Re 2ndcoming

What's with retraction then reinstatements of her posts ??

She sounded like your friend writ large!

Like proudsnad would very much like to hear friends side.

Hmm, am with ProudnSad on this. There are always 2 sides to every tale. I wonder how many other parenting tips you have offered along the way? Perhaps it was the last straw. I cut back contact with a friend drastically for similar reasons - there was no row - I just stopped meeting up with her regularly. She was always telling me how I ought to do stuff with my kids, how my parenting wasn't quite right and generally how to manage my life. I used to bite my tongue for the sake of friendship but actually now I don't really see her, I find it is one less source of stress.

OP yes, your card sounds nice but IMVHO I really do think there is a lot more to this and that you are giving a partial account. And the bit about involving her DP is a bit manipulative-sounding tbh.

Sorry about the confusion on thesecondcoming's post. I was back and forth from the PC (sorting out my kids - yes I do have kids), didn't have my reading glasses on and just couldn't find the post I'd replied to and thought it had disappeared. (It is still safely there!)

Both my children are similar ages to hers, neither of them are shining examples of brilliant behaviour, and I never pretend that they are. I have to shout at them sometimes to get through when they just aren't doing things they've been asked to do. "Please can you get dressed, we're going out" - once ... twice ... third time in 10 minutes and the plot is being lost. I'm far more likely to ask for parenting advice than think I am the one to give it!

What worried me about friend's outbursts are that they only happen with her DD, not her DSs, who she is pretty calm with. It is always 0 - 60 in 3 seconds over things that are so unimportant. It really upsets her DD so much and she seems to be treading on eggshells all the time in case mum blows up. I'm no psychologist, but there is something negative going on in their relationship. Her DP sees it too. I had never said anything to him about it, but he once mentioned it to me (a year or two ago) and told me he was worried about it. I think he has tried to talk to her about it but hasn't got anywhere.

Nothing weird going on with her DP! DH and I introduced friend to her DP 12 years ago. I didn't involve her DP in the issue either - he spoke to me when this first blew up and he has said to me several times since that he thinks I've been really nice about it and he just wishes that she could forgive and forget.

Having slept (not that well) on it I have a bad feeling about the "proper apology" she is looking for. I think it might be for me to say that I was not only wrong to stick my nose in where it wasn't wanted (which most people think I've apologised for as far as I can), but also to tell her that I was wrong in what I said about her shouting at her DD. That would let her put the whole thing back under the carpet, safely out of view. As someone said, the truth hurts and maybe she is having to face up to something she finds very hard to deal with. I wish I hadn't been the cause of it, and I really had no idea that she would turn out to be this sensitive about one (kindly intentioned) comment, but there doesn't seem to be much I can really do now. Maybe she'll sort herself out over time.

Sarah, You sound completely normal and you occasionally shout yourself as a last resort (Its always a last resort with me too when firm and polite hasn't worked several times!). Its obviously not an over reaction as you are also a mother yourself and you have even on occasion shouted yourself.

It is therefore starting to sound like she has an issue with her DD. I have 2 DSs and because of my disastrous relationship with my Mum I often wondereed how I'd treat a DD myself. Would I over compensate for the way my mother treated me or would I feel jealousy that she would have had it better? Maybe your friend has similar issues.

In any case, you sound sensible and measured in your responses and actions. Sadly you have to let some fish go. You don't need to grovel, you've done enough. Its now her issue. YANBU at all.

I agree it sounds like your friend wants you to not just apologise but retract your remarks about her parenting i.e. to say that you were factually wrong, not simply wrong to speak out. If she genuinely has issues with her DD, and knows it, then you pointing them out to her would make her feel very vulnerable and defensive. Sounds like you have done all you can, and it's time to step back for a while.

Well, the more I read the more I think the OP is dealing with narcisststic behaviour. Seems like the friendship was fine whilst the OP played the game and humoured this friend, but it's very telling how this friend can not be wrong. I believe that folk with Narcissistic traits would far rather completely cut you off, than admit they were wrong. She's nursing a narcissistic injury, and looks like there's no way back for the OP. I think it's highly likely that the OP didn't even know this friend as well as she thought.