To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

[Trifle]

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

only 1 YANBU.. I think you've been told OP

YABU to ask them but they are IMHO being a bit rude if the service lasts 3 hours.

I would not ask them not to go, but instead ask which services they intend to go to on the basis that this will allow you to plan alternative things to do whilst they are away. You could then suck your teeth on the phone and say oh what a disappointment for Tristram and Isabel they were so looking forward to spending time with their cousins, but what with you being out from 10 - 1 on Sunday then we think we may as well head off on Sunday morning. See what response that brings.

And now I've spotted Bumpsadaisie's excellent comment, I agree wholeheartedly. I have never woken up on a Sunday and thought, Woopee! let's get four kids up and dressed and ready for smart public behaviour. Often I've thought I don't want to get up at all. But we do it because it is an important part of our faith and actually is enjoyable too once we're there, and if you act as if you aren't bothered to worship God, it means you can't be bothered really and other stuff matters more than thanking God in community, and worshipping Him in community.

You may disagree with your brother's priorities in his families but that's how it is when you visit him.

Bumpsadaisie - "No-one jumps out of bed on a Sunday morning with delight and says "yea! Off to church! An hour to get the kids ready and then two hours of making sure they behave in a reasonably respectful manner." It'd be a lot easier to do without it!

The point is it is a discipline and a commitment, both to God and to the community."

So its not even enjoyable to those that do it willingly and yet some of you want the OP to tag along out of respect for the beliefs of her brother!

WTF?? If the service is 3 hours, then the service is 3 hours. Should they ask the priest (or whoever) to make it snappy because someone else thinks they have better things to do?

Not impressed with OP's snidey comments about her brother's faith. Reading the Bible regularly, praying and being part of a church community are what Christianity are all about, of any flavour/persuasion. None of these are being imposed on the OP, and she is not being forced to recite "Blessed are the cheesemakers" fifty times before breakfast. Go for the weekend, enjoy seeing your brother and his family and while they are out, make the lunch and relax. If you did go along, it certainly wouldn't kill you, your brother would be delighted and you might even enjoy it!

"If I had family friends staying, of course I would rather stay at home with them, have a cooked brek and a chat over the papers."

So why don't you, then?

"No-one jumps out of bed on a Sunday morning with delight and says "yea! Off to church! An hour to get the kids ready and then two hours of making sure they behave in a reasonably respectful manner." It'd be a lot easier to do without it!"

So why don't you, then? At least football fans claim to enjoy it. You do something you don't enjoy, in preference to things you would rather do, out of a sense of discipline? Not a lot of joy in that, is there? Sounds like Birmingham City fans.

It's not a hobby, it's not an interest, it's a lifestyle. That's what you must understand. They live their religion and that means going to church is part of their lives. You are going for the whole weekend. They are taking only 3 hours out of that to do something that is at the heart of their life, is their belief, is so very important to them.

I think that as a family member who loves them, you should just accept that they live their faith.

Have a lie in or go with them, or go to the park or have a wander round the area or cook dinner for when they get back.

There's no harm asking.

I'd welcome a 3 hour reprieve from my family while they went off to church if I was spending whole weekend with them.

But that's just me.

If you all get on ok is it really worth rocking the boat and potentially insulting your family by tellling them to not go? This isn't a hobby or an idle past time this is their religion and it's a shame you don't respect that, and instead call them fanatics.

"If the service is 3 hours, then the service is 3 hours. Should they ask the priest (or whoever) to make it snappy because someone else thinks they have better things to do?"

Other churches are available, of course. They presumably chose the one with the three hour services over others. I've been to a fair number of Methodist services over the years, and I doubt any of them take more than an hour. If it's three hours, it's strongly evangelical. Which also means the "just go along, it won't do your children any harm" stuff is a little naive, bearing in mind the usual round of demons, possession, exorcism, healing, speaking in tongues and other (barely Christian, in some cases) whackiness, with a little extra inveighing against GCSE biology, Harry Potter and homosexuals. It's the difference between popping down to the Working Men's Club for a pint and having an evening with your local SWP faction.

If the OP was being implicitly invited along to the local CofE, Methodist or Catholic church, that would be one thing: the music's good (often great, in fact), the theology is interesting and the architecture is often worth a look. It's part of the culture of our country, and everyone should be familiar with it. Three hours means it's a cult of personality evangelical church, which is a whole different kettle of fish.

I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that they go to different service, maybe after you have left - In fact, I think it is rude to invite people to come for a short stay and then expect them to wait around for hours whilst you disappear off to do something else! Surely they should have already thought about going to a different service themselves?

YABU and rude.

@ Toko

Well, I didn't say I didn't enjoy church - I do and am always very glad indeed that I went - it's uplifting and thought provoking to be part of a church service and nice to be part of a community that you catch up with at the end over coffee and the kids running round. Provided you can palm your baby off on your DH (!), it also is a weekly space for quiet reflection and thinking about life. Most of my key decisions and insights about my life have happened while I am church.

What I did say was that the immediate effort of getting up early on a Sunday and getting the children out of the door is a pain in the arse - and that is why you need to be disciplined and committed about it!

Its similar to exercise. Does a marathon runner "enjoy" the prospect of each training session? If you are at the foot of a big mountain, doesnt your heart sink a bit and you think "god it would be easier just to go to the pub?"!

But life lived according only to our immediate gratification is a poor life - after all it is through making the effort sometimes that good things happen - the sense of achievement at the end of the marathon, the fantastic 360 degree view at the top of the mountain.

There are several families, and of course plenty of the older generation, in our church which is one of the focal points of life in our village. No-one is as gung-ho as the OP's brother sounds and it is a very standard C of E church in the traditional vein. But everyone who is part of the community makes a commitment to try and attend regularly - so that we can maintain our common life which we all love and which does us good. It would be dead easy to say -

"oh, we won't go this week, so and so is coming."

Or, "lets not go this time, I'm tired!"

Or, "lets not bother tomorrow - the sun will be out, we can go for a day trip to the lakes instead".

If we all did that, there would be no community and life in our village would be measurably less nice than it is now.

After all, the key teaching of Christ is that it is through relationships and community that we can live the happiest and fullest lives.

As you were.

Depending on what time you leave on the Sunday, would it be acceptable to ask them not to go in the morning but just the evening?

Appreciate all the comments. It's impossible to speak to my brother on the point of religion as he is so blinkered in his thoughts he is totally incapable of understanding why I dont believe. As far as he is concerned I am going to hell, as are our parents and other brother who also do not believe.

I made the huge mistake once of going to church with my brother. I had to hug complete strangers who were within hugging distance and spout some drivel about god being with them. It was buttock clenchingly awful. I will never go again nor subject my children to it.

It's also all very well to say, just chill at home, relax, read the papers etc. Well with two ds's aged 9 and 10 who want to play with their cousins, it's a huge shame for them that they'll only have me for company when they get me 99% of the time.

I would prefer to spend the time watching the kids play together, in the woods, in the park, taking a boat trip on the river, just enjoying eachothers company instead of them disappearing for 3 hours. We dont visit that often so I would want to make the most of it.

When my brother goes on holiday they dont go to church, I suppose they just up the ante on the praying front, dont really understand why they cant do that when we visit.

Like Tokyo said, and I agree wholeheartedly with everything, yes, they are demonstrating that their religion overides all others.

As the op hasn't been back to explain, we don't know for sure which branch of christianity she's talking about and I can only use my own experiences. All masses in our church are around the 1hr 15 mark. Wouldn't matter if I went to 9.30, 11.30 or 6pm Saturday. We go to the early 'family' mass because that is when the liturgy groups are and it is also more relaxed for the likes of me who has a demon 2yo. After that mass I am often to be found doing the teas and coffees. So there are a number of reasons why I couldn't change to a different service. It's not like going to Tesco instead of Sainsburys.

"It's not a hobby, it's not an interest, it's a lifestyle. "

I've known several people with very deep and abiding faiths, but none of them have felt it necessary to either walk out on guests or find a local church when visiting us. I have no reason to doubt the validity of their faith, but I guess that as they are able to miss the odd Sunday they are not real Christians in the eyes of the truly committed.

x posts :)

Trifle

Fair enough - if you would not be comfortable (and I speak as a churchgoer who would find the sort of church service you describe pretty toe-curling!) then don't go.

But you can't expect him not to go.

Its a about balance isn't it. He has a duty to the community of the church. He also has a duty towards you and your family, in the maintenance of his relationship with you.

If you were going for two days and he was proposing to spend the whole of Sunday out at church, then I think this would be the wrong balance. But I think a morning out of a weekend is OK.

Bumps x

"But everyone who is part of the community makes a commitment to try and attend regularly - so that we can maintain our common life which we all love and which does us good"

So do you go on holiday? The OP says her brother does, and doesn't seek out a church, so the vital commitment can apparently be passed up for a trip to the sun, but not for a visit by a sibling. At least it's clear: in his eyes church-going is more important than their sister, but less important than a holiday. Everyone knows where they stand: holidays first, church second, sister third.

It's not a hobby, it's not an interest, it's a lifestyle. "

I've known several people with very deep and abiding faiths, but none of them have felt it necessary to either walk out on guests or find a local church when visiting us. I have no reason to doubt the validity of their faith, but I guess that as they are able to miss the odd Sunday they are not real Christians in the eyes of the truly committed.

Toko

These things involve thought and judgment. Its about balance isn't it. If an old friend who lives in Australia was driving past us on the motorway and literally only had a couple of hours on a Sunday morning to see us, then I would not go to church.

But if eg my SIL visits for a weekend, we do pop to church on a Sunday morning - we are only gone from 9.45 to 11.45 after all - two hours is not such a big deal!

Trifle

That is a very unfair comment. They are not demonstrating that their religion overides all others, they are just attending their normal Sunday service while you are there for the weekend. Just because you don't believe does not mean it is something trivial that they can just not bother to do any Sunday that it's not convenient. I think you're being the intolerant one here.

Toko

Let's just be clear - I am not saying you have to go to church EVERY SUNDAY or otherwise not be a Christian! What nonsense that would be.

We're off to France soon and will not be going to church over there.

Bumps x