To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

[Trifle]

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

"I plan on visiting my brother"

That sounds like she's inviting herself, which is fine of course, but they're supposed to put their lives on hold?

Ah OK - who is inviting who then?

tokyonambu, in order for your theatre suggestion to be equal to the church scenario, OP would have to tell her brothers family that they've booked theatre tickets for them all and that they are all welcome to come, but that they don't really want to cancel the whole thing if some people would rather stay behind.

YABU. Their religion is obviously important to them (and why does reading the bible and going to Church 2-3 times a week make them fanatics?) Can you not amuse yourselves for 3 hours out of a whole weekend? You sound very self centred to me.

"If church-going is such a central part of their lives, won't they be offender by dilettantes going along just to fill a spare couple of hours?"

Um, no, why? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be delighted by their guests showing interest in something that means a lot to them, and pleased to show them what it's all about.

So in your theatre-going scenario, do you assume that the theatre buffs would be remotely offended by people coming along who weren't really that bothered about theatre, usually?

"If church-going is such a central part of their lives, won't they be offender by dilettantes going along just to fill a spare couple of hours?"

No- most religious people I know like it if friends show an interest. So long as you show respect it's not a problem. Many people who go to church have intermittent doubts about their faith. Many people dont believe in all aspects of a faith. There's not a "faith" test at the door before they let you in!

I once asked a friend who is a priest if it peed him off that loads of people come to midnight mass who he never sees for the rest of the year. His answer was "Absolutely not. God never turns anyone away. Whenever you come, you're welcome".

that is a lovely post baggedandtagged and v well put.

I often feel unsure/uncertain about the shole concept of religion christianity but still attend church. my Father who's a vicar feel the same! Church is for everyone, at anytime even if it is just mass on Christmas Eve!

How about talking honestly with your brother about why you are sad that he is away for 3 precious hours in a seldom sharred weekend, not asking him to change, but so that the resentment you may have does not grow.

Listen to his reasons for his faith being so important and share with him why family and the kids getting together is important to you (or what ever).

Between siblings it should be possible to discuss these issues; therefore I don't think you are being unreasonable to consider discussing it with him. If he insists on going to church despite a polite explanation as to why you would prefer him not to, it would be unreasonable to make a big issue out of it but it would not be unreasonable to try and arrive early on Saturday and then to leave for home as they set off for church.

As an atheist, I find the suggestions that you should accompany your brother to church totally unreasonable. Why should atheists always be the ones that "show respect" to religious people? Why shouldn't religious people show respect to those who, for example, believe that family time is more important than church time?

It's nice that many people have a faith and go to church, so I don't think you should knock them and think that they should take time off just because you're visiting.

When you're a Christian, God comes first in your life, as strange as that might sound to non-believers.

You should accompany them to church for a change.

I think YANBU.

If they 'sometimes' go twice on a Sunday, they clearly have a choice of services. So why not go to the evening one after you've (presumably) gone?

It's not like she's asking them not to go to church EVER, just for one (out of three) services, in one week out of the year. Would God really mind?

I'm assuming those saying 'go with them' haven't actually been to an evangelic-type service? It's really not for the casual agnostic.

If they sometimes attend church twice on a sunday that must mean there is another service at a different time of the day.

Depending on what time the second service is - in the evening? - and what time you are planning on leaving to go home (not going to work if you are planning to go home on the monday morning!) then it wouldn't necessarily be too rude to ask if they would consider going to just the evening service when you leave to go home so that you can all maximise your time together...

That way - you get time together and they still get to go to church to a service that they would often go to. A Win Win situation hopefully!

"Why should atheists always be the ones that "show respect" to religious people? Why shouldn't religious people show respect to those who, for example, believe that family time is more important than church time?"

Quite so. It's privileging religion over everything else, with the implication being that everyone is obliged to accommodate the religious, they are under no obligation to accommodate anyone else. Hence the parallel with football fans: I've met someone who refused to attend their brother's wedding because to do so would have broken their multi-year "I've been to every match" record. People who maintain that they cannot alter their routine in any way to accommodate others are perfectly entitled to behave like that, but whether their inflexibility is about religion, football or having to be home to watch Coronation Street doesn't make a lot of difference: it's still saying that their family (in this example) are less important than their routine.

Cross posted with heathen..

glad to see I am not the only one that thought this was a good idea, was amazed it hadn't already turned up in the thread.

But the brother isnt making the OP go to church with him. The OP is asking the brother to not go to church. Surely the neutral option is that brother goes to church, OP does something else for a few hours. But the issue is that the OP is not happy with the neutral option.

FWIW, if I went to stay with someone who always went to the footie on a Saturday, I'd just go with. Not massively into football myself, but it's something a but different. Why not?

But then I am very much of the "I'll try anything once apart from incest and country dancing" school of thought.

"I'm assuming those saying 'go with them' haven't actually been to an evangelic-type service? It's really not for the casual agnostic."

Indeed. I get the impression we're not talking about popping along to the local CofE for coffee. I attended a service in an evangelical church unintentionally some years ago - we were visiting a university friend who had recently taken up evangelical religion, and we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves in for until it was too late - but we walked out when the hatred directed at homosexuals got too intense. We haven't spoken to her since, on the grounds that life's too short to give succour to bigots.

You're appending the weekend together. Out of say 24 waking hours, you'll be together for 21. Do you really think that them going to church defeatsvthe point of the trip?

YABU their faith clearly means a lot to them and why don't you go with them it won't hurt you and your kids might enjoy it as I loved going to church when Iwas younger

'I'll try anything once apart from incest and country dancing' Me too.

If they are really into church then it is quite likely that they have to go on a Sunday because they are making the teas and coffees, or supervising the creche or doing some other job. Why don't you just ask them about it? He's your brother after all.

YABU.

They do sound quite full on and obv if they were forcing you to go too then they would be totally out of order.

But for some christians the regular commitment is extremely important.

"sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time)"

Sorry but your tone is pretty snidey and betrays a total lack of understanding about what churchgoing is all about. It's not like going to watch the same movie twice, you know!

YABU. It is also not really on to tell your brother to just go in the evening rather than the morning, the morning is usually the eucharist or mass service, the evening one is much shorter, no body and blood etc... not the same deal.

FWIW, I would have no problem visiting my brother (a very committed football fan) and entertaining myself while he goes to the match even though I think its a shocking waste of money. I don't have a problem with the comparison (as a christian) but I would think it selfish and guestzilla of me to expect him to change his plans.

I agree with Tokyo. What a fab analogy.

Why not make a lovely poster while they are kneeling?

Toko

"The point about people who are religious, just like obsessive football fans, is that they believe that their hobbies are more important than you, and don't mind telling you that. You're expected to suck it up, and say things like "oh, I wish I was as committed". In reality, inviting people to your house and then popping out for a few hours to do something more interesting instead is crashingly rude."

I think you miss the point when to equate churchgoing with just another hobby which is "more interesting". If I had family friends staying, of course I would rather stay at home with them, have a cooked brek and a chat over the papers.

No-one jumps out of bed on a Sunday morning with delight and says "yea! Off to church! An hour to get the kids ready and then two hours of making sure they behave in a reasonably respectful manner." It'd be a lot easier to do without it!

The point is it is a discipline and a commitment, both to God and to the community.

The family are entitled to pursue their faith commitment, when they have guests visiting. It's only a few hours on a Sunday morning, and quite easy to sleep in a bit and spend a long morning reading the papers and drinking coffee. You have the rest of the weekend to spend with them.

My family attends church and when we have visitors, they either choose to accompany us (of their own free will) or they stay at home, drinking coffee and quite happy.

Yabu