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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

454 replies

Trifle · 02/09/2010 10:17

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

OP posts:
MerryMarigold · 04/09/2010 13:45

FWIW, I think very many people who have said the OP is BU, are NOT church goers themselves. 2 at least, have 'fanatical' friends/ family but are not religious themselves, and still say she is BU.

As far as I can gather there's about 4 vocal people who think she isn't BU (and a few other less 'vocal'...in 9 pages or whatever it is).

People have got on their hobby horses now...it's not going to help the OP much, but maybe it's an interesting discussion for everyone else!

I wonder who the OP will choose to listen to - OP let us know what you're going to do, won't you?

EldonAve · 04/09/2010 14:10

TheBeast - usually DH takes them to the church of their choice (this varies!) but if we had particular plans then church might be skipped or they might attend an evening service

Chatelaine · 04/09/2010 14:12

From the OP I'm not clear as to whether "I plan on visiting my brother..." means you were invited specifically by them or not. Either why YABU imo. Isn't their way of life part of them and therefore why you want to see them?

TheBeast · 04/09/2010 14:31

EldonAve - So, whether you go to them, or they come to you, they (generally) go to church and you tag along. Its this pandering to the sensibilities of the religious that I can't stand while it is considered perfectly reasonable to ride roughshod over the views and wishes of the non-religious.

Please someone explain why religious people should get this kind of preferential treatment and why even many non-religious people are prepared to give in to this kind of emotional blackmail. It suggests that, except for a few of us who ask for equal (not preferential) treatment, non-religious people are, in general, more tolerant and forgiving of other people's foibles and religious people much less prepared to fit in with their hosts' or guests' preferences.

Animation · 04/09/2010 15:06

Good point The Beast,

If supposing the OP wanted a family day out in the country, and the brother prefered church, should the brother's needs override the OPs?

And if so, why?

nickelbabe · 04/09/2010 15:16

when i go away somewhere, i always try to visit a church where i am.
i'm quite interested in how other churches conduct their services.

YABU to think that they should not go to church one weekend jsut because you've visited - i would love to have that option when i have visitors, but being in the choir (and with DH being the organist) i don't have the luxury.

ans when my family and friends visit, they are well aware that i go to churhc - if they want to come, they do, if they don't, they lie in, or do other things until i get back.

noone i know seems to have a problem with it.

can't you use it as an excuse to chill and relax and watch a video, or go to the park?

or even fix the whole family lunch when they're out,as a special treat for them?

Animation · 04/09/2010 15:24

nickelbabe - the question I'd like to ask though is, why is it unfair to ask a church-goer to be flexible and try and compromise a bit when they have invited guests.

tokyonambu · 04/09/2010 15:26

"i would love to have that option when i have visitors, but being in the choir (and with DH being the organist) i don't have the luxury."

Your choice, though. "I would love to have that option" implies you wish you hadn't made it.

nickelbabe · 04/09/2010 15:30

Animation - because it's putting the hosts out, not the guests.
it would be like saying to the guests that they couldn't go to church because the hosts never did.

tokyonambu - i was just being funny, i didn't mean it!
(although, sometimes it would be nice not to have to perform - sometimes it's nice to go to a church and justbe in the congregation)

Quattrocento · 04/09/2010 15:43

I think you should go with them. From your OP it sounds as though you don't yourself go to church (no more do we, I hasten to add) but it's actually reasonable for you to go and take your DCs and give them a bit of active background on christian traditions, and maybe provoke a bit of discussion afterwards.

Animation · 04/09/2010 15:49

nickelbabe - are you saying the church goers have an entitlement?

morganlebuffay · 04/09/2010 15:49

Going to church is a matter of conscience for many people. It's not the same as preferring to go ice-skating rather than catch a film. A slightly better analogy, inspired by expat's post, might be playing in a sports team. Say the OP's brother feels obliged to play in his football team's match on Sunday morning (and his kids like to go along as mascots, I don't know). Wouldn't it be quite inconsiderate to ask him not to? Yeah, maybe it's a shame because you'd like to spend those couple of hours together, but it's not something a reasonable person is likely to get worked up about. You might even go along and cheer him on - or you might consider football a ridiculous, meaningless waste of time, and make other plans. What is the big deal about this?

I have relatives who are observant Christians - I've never considered any of them remotely fanatical, but apparently by some people's standards on this thread, the fact that they attend church on Sundays and try to live by the rules of their religion makes them so. I know that they attend church every week. They have done all the decades I've known them. It's what they do. On holiday, if they can find a church of their denomination, they will attend. So I fully expect that when they are staying for the weekend, they will be in church on Sunday morning. Why would I want them to go against their conscience at my behest?

It seems to me that religion is an exception - in the sense that when it's religion on the table and not football or finger-painting, some people feel entitled to make a massive deal about it and turn it into a debate about the validity of all religion and make disparaging, grossly generalised remarks about "the religious mentality" and "fairy lovers".

I don't object to people's principles and beliefs being discussed and questioned. I do object to the hostile and contemptuous way that some people do it, which seems to only come out when religion is being discussed. And I do think it's quite hostile to, for example, interrogate someone on their objection to gambling when it was pretty much mentioned in passing and wasn't really the point. Context matters too, just as you wouldn't go up to somebody, I don't know, coming out of a halal butcher and ask them what was wrong with regular meat.

nickelbabe · 04/09/2010 15:55

Animation - yes, I do.
it's our right as humans to be free to practise our religion and that includes going to church when we want to.
the op's family has every right to stay at home when they go off to church, so it should work both ways.

EldonAve · 04/09/2010 16:11

TheBeast - I give in for family harmony, however I don't attend church when they visit with us

SauvignonBlanche · 04/09/2010 16:44

I think the Sunday point is being missed here.
"'Sunday morning is the big church time' why, is the priest/vicar/whatever else
more full of wisdom?"

One of the Ten Commandments was 'Keep the Sabbath Day Holy'. Presumably these prople are Christians and their sabbath is Sunday.

TheBeast · 04/09/2010 17:55

SauvignonBlanche - Are you saying the ONLY way to keep the Sabbath holy is to go to church?

What reading I have done suggests there are other ways:

"But the holiness of the Sabbath is also made manifest in the joy people expect to experience on that day. It is a good deed for married couples to have sexual intercourse on Shabbat. Taking a walk, resting, talking with loved ones, reading?these are good too."

Why shouldn't the brother consider these other aspects of keeping the sabbath holy? Particularly, in the context of this thread the "talking with loved ones".

mathanxiety · 04/09/2010 18:05

'Plenty of people on here have said it's a hassle to get up, to get the children ready and to go to church and that they (to paraphrase) do it out of duty/obligation - I'm not sure that was really Gods intention was it?'

So you have some way of figuring out God's intentions? Have you considered joining an organised religion, because that's what they all seem to specialise in -- you might go far.

ladyharriet · 04/09/2010 18:05

Sorry TheBeast, I'm not Sauvignon Blanche, but I think it's a bit much to tell people in one breath what a load of rubbish religon is, and in the next breath advise them on how they can keep the Sabbath day holy. Different religions and denominations have different ideas of how to keep the Sabbath, as you must know. Some of them insist on church. Others are stricter, e.g. Orthodox Jews do not even use elctricity on the Sabbath. Where did you get your quote from, and what, if any religion/denomination is it talking about? I think it's a bit pointless when we haven't even been told what type of church the OP's brother goes to.

SauvignonBlanche · 04/09/2010 18:06

No, of course I'm not suggesting that!
How did you make that jump? Hmm

Rockbird · 04/09/2010 18:08

Well as the op hasn't been back for days it seems it's a bigger problem for you lot than for her.

And I love the way you're all assuming that the brother has invited her, when in fact, despite having asked the question and been ignored every time, we don't know that the OP hasn't invited herself. And that for me makes all the difference. As she hasn't clarified, I suspect that she invited herself, in which case, she hasn't got any right to expect them to change their routine.

And as for you lot talking yourself round in circles Hmm trying to show how clever you all are.... you should listen to yourselves, really.

ladyharriet · 04/09/2010 18:08

doh, namechange didn't work. I'm Morganlebuffay, name-changed to ladyharriet as a standard anonymity thing (I'm a pesky serial-namechanger) then wanted to post on this thread again so tried to change back to morganlebuffay but it didn't work.

SauvignonBlanche · 04/09/2010 18:13

OP hasn't been here for the last twelve pages. Must be enjoying her brother's hospitality Wink

RunawayWife · 04/09/2010 18:17

YABU you have clearly pointed out that you would not want to go with them, so how would you feel if they ask you to or even insisted you did,
You would not like it, so you are wrong to ask them not to go.

ivykaty44 · 04/09/2010 18:18

well perhaps there is no pc to mumsnet on, at the db

unfitmother · 04/09/2010 18:26

Shame, it would be something to do on Sunday morning!