To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

[Trifle]

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

Tokyo

Why do you nit pick and deride everyone's beliefs on here, just because they don't coincide with your's. You come across as either very very arrogant or very bored with life.

If someone believes it's wrong to miss Church on Sunday or to accept funding raised by gambling, then that is their belief. It's not hurting you but still you come on and knock people and sneer and aggressively question and demand explanations. In addition a lot of your posts show a complete lack of understanding of religion in any case and to those of us who practise religion some of them sound totally idiotic.

Tokyo you sound as bossy, intolerant and generally unpleasant as some of the "fudamentalists" you so deride. Maybe if you argued your case with a little more kindness and willingness to at least understand that people with religious beliefs are still human beings maybe you wouldn't get people's backs up quite so much. you actually come across as more bigoted than they do.

Tokyo kicks ten kinds of arse, before breakfast, and is of course right.

It's interesting to note that those having a dig are all struggling to put two words in a row.

Any intelligent, articulate fairy-lovers feel like stepping up to the mark?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Isn't there a nice park or something nearby that you could go to while they are out?

swanandduck - In addition a lot of your posts show a complete lack of understanding of religion in any case and to those of us who practise religion some of them sound totally idiotic.

Please be more specific and identify the posts you believe sound idiotic and/or show a lack of understanding of religion.

As far as I can tell, tokyonambu is merely asking people who claim to do things out of principle to explain what the extent of those principles are and, if they are prepared to vary them, on what basis.

This seems a perfectly reasonable approach to me.

I suspect the problem is that Tokyo's posts show a disturbingly accurate understanding of the religious mentality.

OK (not swanandduck obviosuly), what about when Tokyo said that surely truly religious people would be "offended" by "mere dilettantes" going to church with them. Something that rang completely false with everyone who replied.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly "a disturbingly accurate understanding" in that case.

No, TheBeast she sneers and derides as other posters have also stated.

Bruxeur, what an unpleasant post. There have been some extremely articulate posts objecting to Tokyo's bigotted and intolerant views. As for your comment re 'fairy lovers' that is beneath contempt and really speaks volumes about your attitude towards others.

So close!

And yet...

morganlebuffay Why is that idiotic or show a complete misunderstanding of religion?

My church, when I had one, did not like people just coming along to be "entertained" by the fire and brimstone preachers and, for example, barred "mere dilettantes" from full participation in the service, such as taking communion and would have been seriously offended if one did. They wanted the people to take the religion seriously. They were happy to take any money the dillettantes placed on the collection plate, though.

swanandduck saying that she "sneers and derides" does not answer my question but apppears to be an attempt to derail it.

If the only post by tokyonambu which allegedly shows a lack of understanding of religion is the one mentioned by swanandduck, I'm afraid your criticism is unfounded.

I didn't use the word "idiotic".

It shows a misunderstanding of religon because it assumes that all religions and reliigous people are alike. OK, as you have said, your church did not like casual attenders, but plenty more places of worship welcome them. It is not specific to "the religious mentality". There are non-religious clubs which do not welcome outsiders, and also non-reliigous clubs that do.

I also think there is a risk of misunderstanding the fact that some places of worship will not allow "dilettantes" to participate fully in the service. I know that, for example, the Catholic Church does not allow non-Catholics to take communion, and the reason for that is that taking communion is supposed to signify that you are "in communion" with the teachings of the Church. Likewise, if you are Catholic and have sinned and not gone to confession, you still can't take communion for that reason (not that anyone will physically stop you, it's more a matter of conscience). However, other denominations such as the Church of Enlgand have a different interpretaion of what communion means, and will AFAIK allow anyone to take it.

TheBeast

I presume you can read. If you have not picked up on the offensive and sneering tone of Tokyo's posts I am not going to waste time going back over and quoting from them.

oh how i love aibu threads!

so good for the soul

Swanandduck -

The way I see it Tokyo has presented a very good argument that exposes some hypocrisy in those who argue that to boycot National Lottery output - is morally virtuos.

Is this what makes you uncomfotable?

well none of us would be here if we were illiterate would we?

Also TheBeast, I'd like to ask why your church didn't like people coming in to be "entertained"... I think the answer is in the word 'entertained' actually. I can see why they wouldn't welcome people who were coming in to have a bit of a gawp and a laugh at the funny preachers. Would they not have welcomed respectful and curious observers, and guests of the parishioners? Otherwise what was the point of their "fire and brimstone" sermons if they were only preaching to the converted?

Animation

Read my posts.

ivykaty

It was a rhetorical question.

Bit of a silly question to my mind

Swanannduck.

I have - and you appear bitter about something?

Tokyo has expressed her argument in a fair, articulate and assertive fashion. I don't understand therefore why you have resorted to personal attack?

Hi OP
I think your analysis of them as to the point of fanaticism sounds absolutely spot on. I think you can by all means ask them not to go when yuo are there, as if you are only giong for weekend, then maybe god could let them off just for that time as otherwise it does seem a little pointless - dependnig on journey time of course.
There is a story int he bible about Jesus going to visit someone and one of them spends the whole time in the kitchen fussing (she is the baddie) and the other spends the whole time talking to him (she is the goodie). Maybe you could refer your brother to this story - Jesus would rather we all sat round and chatted to each other I think. But then, I am a militant atheist so waddoino?

Definitely some raw nerves there. All ouchy and tingly.

I say, though, I haven't seen much of this cheek-turning as yet.

Animation

I am not bitter. I am angry at the way some posters, including Tokyo, are not prepared to accept people's religious beliefs but prefer to attack them.

The level of arrogance, intolerance and plain old ignorance displayed on this thread is astounding. Live and let live anyone??