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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

454 replies

Trifle · 02/09/2010 10:17

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

OP posts:
swanandduck · 03/09/2010 16:40

That wasn't the post I was offended by. In fact, I barely read that one. It's the attitude of Tokyo and others that, if they don't understand someones religious beliefs, it is okay to make sneering or insulting remarks about them. I don't understand the Jewish religion, or why they can't allow certain foods to come in contact with others, and I don't understand why women in some cultures want to cover their facesbut I wouldn't dream of posting remarks like that about them on websites.

swanandduck · 03/09/2010 16:41

Sorry, Riven, that post was to Animation

sarah293 · 03/09/2010 17:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheFallenMadonna · 03/09/2010 19:57

TheBeast - I am a "religious" person, and I didn't say that. I said I wouldn't ask because it would a) require them to explain at length their position and b) give them an opening to invite them to a service I strongly suspect the OP would be keen to avoid. As would I, religious faith notwithstanding.

Animation · 03/09/2010 20:06

The Beast - your name reminds me of that great song by David Bowie - "The Beauty and the Beast". Anybody remember it?

Xenia · 03/09/2010 20:08

It's a pretty feeble religion if it cannot stand up to discussion or shies away from debate.

Catholics can go to church on Satruday evening in lieu of Sunday and usually on Sunday there are 5 different masses from 8am through to the evening that can count so you can very very easily accommodate guests. Also it's quite good for children to go to church and learn to shut up and keep still even if they don't normally go so that alone would be good reason for the poster to take her children. It will help teach them how not to move and be quiet something a lot of children could do with learning.

Animation · 03/09/2010 20:16

Xenia - "It's pretty feeble religion if it cannot stand up to discussion or shies away from debate."

Well timed Xenia. It's become apparent to me that some posters do their damnest to make sure a debate never happens.

expatinscotland · 03/09/2010 20:18

It's your brother. My sister is an American college football fan. If we visit during football season, it's going to involve tailgate and football parties and watching games and Go team!

I hate American football. I think it's stoopid.

So what?! She likes it. It's harmless, really. One day, our parents will be dead and there will be just her and me.

Is it worth falling out with her, someone I love so much, who always loved and supported me, who said nothing to me but support when I was busy cocking up my life and hurting her feelings, over something that really doesn't do any harm to me?

Grow up.

If you can't entertain yourself for 3 hours you're in a far worse way than someone who goes to church on Sunday.

mathanxiety · 03/09/2010 20:33

I don't know if the family in question is Catholic though -- I don't know of any Catholic church anywhere that holds 3-hour masses or asks you to go back for a second session later. Or maybe I missed something further back... Three hours is a heckuva long time for children to sit still.

Thing is, though, Animation, every decision other people make about their own conduct is not made in order to thumb a nose at you personally or imply any kind of superiority over you. You can choose to interpret other people's opinions and actions that way of course, but that interpretation lacks perspective.

TheBeast · 03/09/2010 20:36

TheFallenMadonna - I apologise. I over generalised.

If I could have a signature on this forum, it would probably be something along the lines of "When I generalise, please read 'many' or 'some' into each of my statements and, more particularly, if you are not mentioned by name, please don't consider what I say a personal slight".

Animation · 03/09/2010 20:53

Mathanxiety - It's a long story, but I was interpreting the behaviour of the aggressive mums who took offence to the free fruit, because it was funded by The National Lottery.

Xenia · 03/09/2010 21:23

I was assuming they drive for 35 mins, have time before that dressing up, chat to people after the hour long service and then get back in time for lunch hence 3 hours.

seaturtle · 03/09/2010 21:56

YABU This isn't religious fanaticism. This is something that means a lot to them.

tokyonambu · 03/09/2010 22:25

"It's a pretty feeble religion if it cannot stand up to discussion or shies away from debate."

That's one of the more irritating things about religion. I couldn't give a shit if my children are exposed to religion of whatever hue, assuming (and, in general, it's a safe assumption) that schools don't go in for the sort gay-bashing racism the more excitable sects get up to. I draw the line at "that lady died because she was a sinner who didn't pray enough" but I'm not stupid enough to think that's terribly likely to happen in school assemblies. They went to the local primary, which is CofE with the wrinkle of the parish priest, who did a lot of assemblies, managing to be simultaneously high Anglo-Catholic and vaguely evangelical. The secondary school is ~50% Muslim, and aside from occasional bits of pandering in biology lessons, are best just laughed at, it's a rice stew of assorted cultural and faith inputs. As I can think of nothing better than my children coming home with ideas diametrically opposed to mine - isn't the idea of education to broaden the mind? - this is great: ideal for a dust-up over dinner.

Unfortunately, the religious don't seem to have much faith in their religion, and believe that the slightest challenge to their precepts will turn their children funny. So there's endless pissing about in which members of sect X insist that there be no mention of sect Y, or worry that anyone daring to suggest that the earth is more than 6000 years old will cause immediate damnation, or whatever. The people hassling the school about the curriculum aren't atheists who, largely, couldn't care less - if we can't convince our own children, what are our views worth? - but assorted religious sects who don't have the faith that they can convince their own offspring without the school joining in.

expatinscotland · 03/09/2010 23:13

Oh, it's not Catholics, Xenia. They'd just off to Sat. evening Mass and be done with it.

The OP said they go once on Sunday and then go back.

Nah, they're not Catholics unless they're going back as the 4th in bridge at the rectory or for poker and then they could get out of it easily enough.

My guess is they're evangelical.

usualsuspect · 03/09/2010 23:15

I wouldn't be happy if I went to visit someone and they fucked off out tbh

SpeedyGonzalez · 03/09/2010 23:26

YANBU. I share the same faith but agree that it's rude to abandon your guests. But then my faith is not 'fanatical', maybe there's the difference.

If friends come to stay we would never dream of even asking them to accompany us to church. If they suggest it themselves and we get up early enough on the Sunday (we'd usually have a long, late Saturday dinner) then that's ok. Even at Xmas, when my agnostic brothers come to stay, we stay at home with them.

Your brother's faith is not going to suffer if he misses a church service - ironically, IME, time away from church has made my faith grow deeper. Anyway he and his family can be good hosts to you and pray at home for one day.

EldonAve · 03/09/2010 23:38

Interesting thread
When we visit church going members of the family we go with them. I wouldn't dare ask them not to attend

SpeedyGonzalez · 03/09/2010 23:44

Eldon, I can imagine if you came to our house we'd both be bending over backwards to accommodate - 'You go!' 'No, I'll stay!' Grin

ChippingIn · 04/09/2010 00:38

Swanandduck you said about Tokyo Why do you nit pick and deride everyone's beliefs on here, just because they don't coincide with your's. You come across as either very very arrogant or very bored with life

If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Tokyo doesn't come across as arrogant or very bored with life. She comes across as well read, educated, intelligent, interesting with in clear & 'readable' manner. If some numpty posts I believe the world is flat and you are stupid if you don't agree with me - why shouldn't that be challenged?

For all of you saying the OP should just 'cook a lovely lunch' (how 1952 is that??), 'find something to do for 3 hours' or how dull she must be if she can't entertain her children for 3 hours you are missing the point! She can do that at home she is travelling quite some distance, for a weekend to visit her brother and his family - losing half a day out of that for his 'interest' it's just ridiculous - there are plenty of other days in the week to go to church, it doesn't have to be Sunday morning, he should have more consideration for his sister, her family & their joint family time.

mathanxiety · 04/09/2010 02:39

Don't be so silly -- Sunday morning is the big church time. There are not plenty of other days in the week to go to church.

The sister knows about this "interest" of her brother's and apparently still insists on visiting at the weekend, when there are plenty of other days when she could make the trip.

Does she even like her brother and SIL? Because it seems to me that she has nothing but contempt for something that is important to him, possibly blames the SIL for his divergence from the non-fanatical fold, and effectively wants to force him to choose between the church and her to prove something about the sibling relationship.

ChippingIn · 04/09/2010 07:35

Mathanxiety - you believe in something out of a story book and I'm the silly one Hmm

'Sunday morning is the big church time' why, is the priest/vicar/whatever else
more full of wisdom? Her brother & his family go several times a week, when is she supposed to go without interrupting this routine? Even if they could all take several days off of work/school to visit with each other? and presumably, she's been invited to visit at the weekend.

Plenty of people on here have said it's a hassle to get up, to get the children ready and to go to church and that they (to paraphrase) do it out of duty/obligation - I'm not sure that was really Gods intention was it?

Her brother has invited her to come and visit, the OP is taking her children quite some distance to see them, for a weekend, 2 days, and her brother can't miss going to church for a significant part of that time, yet he can go on a fortnights holiday and not go to church once? As has been said earlier - one must then conclude his priorites are holiday, church, family.

If her brother has never missed a Sunday for any reason, then I guess fair enough - bbut - I kinda don't think this is going to be the case do you?

Surely if God is all seeing, all hearing it doesn't matter where you pray? Surely if you have your family visiting you, it is just as important to be at your house as in one of his?

As for your last paragraph, what a lot of tosh. Whe clearly likes him well enough to make the effort to take her children all the wway to their place to visit him & his family.

Xenia · 04/09/2010 07:42

Did they say he didn't go to church on holiday? It's fun to go to church on holiday as you see local people and real life in that country.

Anyway this is just about needing to have mutual understanding of people who are different from us and tolerance. If you visit people for 2 days full on having 3 hours off can be a blessing. If she could just turn it round into that in her head - phew a few hours just our family to relax without them around - then she might feel happier about it.

TheBeast · 04/09/2010 09:22

EldonAve - "When we visit church going members of the family we go with them. I wouldn't dare ask them not to attend"

And when they visit you, do they fit in with your plans even if those do not include going to church?

BTW interesting choice of words "wouldn't dare ask". It suggests that you consider that church goers views should hold absolute primacy over the views non-church goers.

tokyonambu · 04/09/2010 09:38

"Did they say he didn't go to church on holiday? It's fun to go to church on holiday as you see local people and real life in that country."

Wrong sort of Christians, apparently. You can get an idea of the way they think of each other from the 39 articles, which shows that the Anglicans' view that you shouldn't be "offensive" about other people's deeply held faith doesn't extend to being nice to Catholics:

"XXII. Of Purgatory
The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping and Adoration, as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God."