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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask my brother and family not to go to church when we visit

454 replies

Trifle · 02/09/2010 10:17

I plan on visiting my brother, sil and their 2 children for a weekend in September with my 2 ds's. All the children get on fabulously and really enjoy eachothers company although, due to distance apart, we dont meet up as often as is liked.

My brother and sil are deeply religious to the point of fanaticism. They read the bible every day, pray religiously, attend church at least 2 if not 3 times a week, sometimes twice on a sunday (obviously the message doesnt get through first time).

Now, if we visit at the weekend and stay overnight, would IBU to ask them not to go to church on a sunday morning as the whole thing takes about 3 hours and we just end up hanging around waiting for them to come back. This defeats the object of the whole trip if we are there to see them plus I also think it is rude to abandon your guests.

OP posts:
morganlebuffay · 02/09/2010 15:10

We have laws against doing that kind of thing, Hullygully! I just object to Animation saying "God is love, God would rather you did x than y" and banging her gavel. Otherwise how would atheists object to horrible acts as you describe, if it was just an argument over what God wants or doesn't want?

swanandduck · 02/09/2010 15:10

Hullygully

Now you are talking about dangerous fundamentalists not normal Christians who want to practice their religion and attend religious services. Do you equate football fans with football hooligans?

letsblowthistacostand · 02/09/2010 15:10

Completely agree with everything Tokyo says. What DO liverpool fans think will happen to them if they don't go to a match?

Also, do you all seriously think it is rational to believe in hellfire? Does it make religious people happy to believe they are going to heaven and all their enemies are going to hell? My dad believes I'm going to hell and it makes him really depressed.

Animation · 02/09/2010 15:11

There are some horrendously cruel stories in the Old Testament. People have to use their common sense and interpret the Bible accordingly. The JW interpret the Bible far too literally and end up with all sorts of strange notions - all based on fear.

Remember that God is love - you worship and look after the family - both as important.

Hullygully · 02/09/2010 15:13

It's still only me that is chosen. Kingdom Hall says so. Fact. Black devils for the rest of you.

unfitmother · 02/09/2010 15:13

YABVU
I'm with pozzled

letsblowthistacostand · 02/09/2010 15:13

Animation: you don't get to pick and choose. If you're a Christian, you have to believe in the WHOLE BIBLE. ALL OF IT IS COMPLETELY TRUE. It is a requirement, even if it's glossed over in a lot of modern churches.

morganlebuffay · 02/09/2010 15:15

I'm not arguing about whether or not I think it's right to believe in xyz or whether xyz is true.

I'm just saying - why not show a bit of consideration towards one's hosts taking 3 hours out of a weekend to do something that is important to them and harms nobody?

Hullygully · 02/09/2010 15:16

Like dogging

sarah293 · 02/09/2010 15:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Animation · 02/09/2010 15:18

Lets - Damn right you get to pick and choose - the Bible was written by men NOT God.

I'm off now - to spend some time with lovely daughter Wink

SolidGoldBrass · 02/09/2010 15:18

Look, religion is all ridiculous bullshit but people have the right to pursue it if they want to (up to a point, that point being when they are actively harmful to other people ie discrimination, violence, destruction of property, bomb-planting etc).
And I was a bit intrigued by someone's post (too lazy to scroll back up) about going to a nutjob rightwing church becauase it's sort of interesting and teaches you about other people's viewpoints. ALl very well for an adult, but would you take your DC to somewhere that preaches homophobia and misoygny (and possibly a little racism thrown in, some of these really bucketheaded cults are not at all averse to that). WOuld you take young DC to a BNP rally in order to teach them to respect their relatives' beliefs?

tokyonambu · 02/09/2010 15:18

"I really believe that respect needs to be earned not just given and I really struggle with the concept of respecting people's belief that something is true just because they say it is"

That's the point. A perfectly reasonable position - that you should respect people's rights to hold whatever beliefs they wish, so long as it does not involve them in committing crimes - has in recent years (as part of the seeming "right to not be offended") been extended to the idea that you have to respect the beliefs themselves. People are entirely welcome to believe in the God of their choice, be it Yahweh or Bob Paisley. However, other people are not obligated to "respect" those beliefs beyond not, for example, burning them at the stake.

Thesists have no problem at all with going around telling the rest of us that we're going to hell, that homosexuality, pork, women's ankles or cloth made from multiple fibres are crimes against God, and that the law should be changed to accommodate their needs. And that's fine, they shouldn't have a problem: I'm pretty much an absolute freedom of speech kind of Nambu. However, when the boot is on the other foot, they want to whine about "offence" and "respect" and "deeply held beliefs".

Religion is a hobby. It involves believing things that are highly unlikely to be true (after all, as each religion claims that it's the sole true religion, either zero or one of them are right, and there are a lot to choose from) and then adopting a set of behaviours to join your chosen club. Some believe in the divinity of Christ and attend church several times a week. Some believe in the plausibility of Aston Villa getting into Europe and go down to Villa Park several times a week. Everyone needs a hobby, and I'm sure they all have great fun. And you only have to listen to local radio phone-ins to know how deeply, and genuinely, men of a certain age are emotionally connected to the Holte End, just as others are to their local church.

But getting offended because your hobby is called a hobby is just weird.

TheBeast · 02/09/2010 15:19

Animation - People have to use their common sense and interpret the Bible accordingly.

Beware: If you use common sense in interpreting the Bible you will become an atheist.

There is very little in the Bible, from the 7 days of creation; through the burning bush, the exodus from Egypt, the strictures on stoning homosexuals or eating prawns, to the virgin birth and the resurrection which can in any way be justified using common sense or, god forbid, science.

BTW I used "god forbid" ironically, just in case you missed the irony emoticon.

MerryMarigold · 02/09/2010 15:22

Where's Unquiet Dad Wink? Come and join in, you know you want to!

Animation · 02/09/2010 15:24

TheBeast - you make a fair point. But there is some good stuff stuff in Bible as well.

YellowDaffodil · 02/09/2010 15:26

I can't believe this is still going. OPs brother and his family are entiled to go to church on a Sunday, it is perfectly normal behaviour ffs.

OP can go, not go, head home early, whatever, that is entirely up to her. Why does she get to dictate what her brother does?

For the record I would also not be pissed off if my host went to the football, took their children to dance lessons, or nipped out to do the weekly shop whilst I was visiting either. I would go along or not depending on how I felt.

TheBeast · 02/09/2010 15:29

Animation - yes, but the good stuff is mostly in the parables and the psalms which, even on the strictest interpretation of the Bible, are not meant to be be factually accurate, just stories and songs.

morganlebuffay · 02/09/2010 15:32

Yes, Hullygully, nothing like a nice spot of dogging on a Sunday morning after mass.

tokyonambu · 02/09/2010 15:34

"But there is some good stuff stuff in Bible as well."

Leviticus 12:6. I love roast lamb, and we should go back to celebrating births properly. Leviticus 19:19: I get really fed up with cotton/nylon mix, which wash programme do you put it on?

swanandduck · 02/09/2010 15:36

Look, religion is all ridiculous bullshit

No SGB, In your view religion is all ridiculous bullshit. There's a difference.

TheBeast · 02/09/2010 15:48

swanandduck

In my view, religion is ridiculous nonsense; in your view, presumably, it is not.

The difficulty you have is that I can apply the scientific method to justify my point of view; most Christians have to run the circular argument that "the Bible is true because the Bible tells us so", notwithstanding the fact that many of the "facts" stated in the Bible would not be believed even by Christians if they were not in the Bible.

Just because two people hold opposite views does not mean that the same level of credence or respect should be given to each view; you have to weigh up the evidence and form a rational view of which is likely to be correct and allocate your respect and, in my view, your belief systems, accordingly.

Notyetamummy · 02/09/2010 15:52

That's a fair point SolidGoldBrass(I am the one who goes with her friend to her 'nutjob rightwing church'lol)and I would definately not take DCs to a BNP rally!

I do think that the OP atleast needs to educate her children about these views as it will inevitably come up when they are talking to their cousins. (I like the letter that Richard Dawkin's has written to his 10yo DD).

I still think that it is a valuable experience for adults to visit one of these church services - I had never seen anything like it before.

On the other hand, if the OPs brother's church is more of the conventional (less mention of hellfire) variety then I still think that it could be a good experience for the children.

I really believe that you should respect people's rights to hold whatever beliefs they wish (does not need to be earned but can be lost). If someone wants to believe that there is a china teapot circling the sun and it is not hurting anyone then it is up to them. However, I don't think that respecting someone's right to believe something is the same as not challenging their beliefs. I enjoy debating with my friend about her beliefs.

tokyonambu · 02/09/2010 15:56

"I really believe that you should respect people's rights to hold whatever beliefs they wish "

Absolutely. Absolutely.

". However, I don't think that respecting someone's right to believe something is the same as not challenging their beliefs. "

Laughing's good, too.

Rockbird · 02/09/2010 15:56

The bit we're missing though, is whose idea the visit was. If the brother rang and invited them then it's not unreasonable to think they might go to a later service, although as I said before, there might be reasons why they insist on that one.

However, if the op has gaily invited herself and her family then really you takes your choice.

And I forgot to to respond to the bit where she said her 9 and 10 year olds would rather be playing with their cousins. That made me smile. I'd rather log into my online bank and have all the DRs become CRs. Life is tough.