to find it a little bit pathetic when grown women say they won't drive long distances

[emkana]

of more than 30 (!) miles because they are scared of the driving and navigating.

Is it really that hard, am I missing something here?

The route I told you from Warwick to Jewellery quarter The adult ticket was £3.10 STD half fare CDR RTN route any permitted and I couldn't travel between 4.30pm and 6pm The child ticket was £1.60 STD half fare CDR But why didn't this price show up online last night when I looked at the cost of travelling by train today? No reason to keep the price hidden away

Sorry, by route I meant routing, ie "Any Permitted".

So we've got everything of note: it's a Cheap Day Return, it's not some weird restricted route (although I actually doubt there is a permitted route between those two points other than the obvious one, I'm not inclined to dive into the routing guide to find out if a loop via Stratford and Tyseley is permitted) and it has a time restriction.

I think CDR might be the magic part: it's not a standard ticket type, and I think this covers why they're not included on the website at "Why can't I find the Ticket I want?" Which is, if you'll pardon my language, a fucking disgrace, and why the railways need to be given a slap to sort this sort of nonsense out. They can only behave like this because they're drunk on subsidy. It's not a matter of not being able to find the ticket you want, it's a matter of knowing it exists in the first place.

I am glad I didn't buy the tickets online for us both!

How you get a private company that is subed to get its act together

Get the India rail company in and sort it out - they turned aorund the rail service there three, four years ago and actualy make a profit

"How you get a private company that is subed to get its act together"

Cut its subsidy. Easy.

The National Rail website is a disgrace, and it's nothing to do with the alleged complexity of the railways either pre- or post- privatisation that makes it inevitable, it's to do with not thinking through what's actually required. But they're not alone: a trip into the wild world of the DB website or the SNCF website (I've bought tickets for train journeys in both France and Germany in recent months) makes the National Rail offering look like the Elysian Fields.

The usual requirements for train travel are either "I need to get here as quickly as possible, and I don't care what it costs so long as it's fast" and "I need to get here as cheaply as possible, and I don't care how long it takes so long as it's cheap". The website does a good job of the former question, but is appalling at the latter.

Of course, the infinite variety of the fares is an issue, and the fact that at one point the cheapest way to travel from London to Glasgow was with a ticket from London to Carlisle makes it very difficult for a computer to figure it all out (I have a friend who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of "to get from A to B, buy tickets from A to C, C to D, D to E and E to B" combinations). But to offer some of the obvious options isn't that hard, and the website fails atrociously.

The subsidy will be cut substantially for sure, but I would be truly amazed if we are about to see improvements in the service as a result - cuts to services and big fare rises in fares infinitely more likely. The whole franchise system is a bizarre mess.

" The whole franchise system is a bizarre mess."

Pick your golden age. They almost all illusory. For every year you nominate with solid benefits over today, the disbenefits are usually not hard to list.

Oh dear, this is the first time I've been on here in weeks and I can't believe the lack of empathy of this thread!Is this Mumsnet or Bullynet? Would you all be so dismissive of people with other fears or phobias? I passed my test first time but could not afford my own car for years so had little chance to build up confidence or experience. Like others, years later, had to go thro' panic attacks, sweaty palms and terror to overcome it. Had some REALLY confident friends who had cars bought for them at seventeen by Mummy and Daddy, a couple of whom wrote them off within months, hospitalising some of their friends in the process. I'm sure none of the posters have any silly, pathetic womanly fears or phobias that embarrass us all do you!

This thread has been an education in so many ways. I've now realised that driving is a feminist issue

Yes I know lots of women who won't drive on motorways/do long journeys.

Yes I also find it v pathetic.

However I also find it quite unimpressive if a man says he can't drive. Of course if it is a medical issue then I have every sympathy but I do wonder why they never got round to learning such a useful skill.

I have always driven all over and been willing to - life would be far too limiting were I not up for driving!

I don't mind driving long distances but I'd much rather drive on motorways than country roads! I creep along country roads at 30mph because you never know what might fly around the corner or run out into the road.

I wouldn't drive in London or similar big, busy, chaotic city though

YABU - unless you have no fears of your own!

I don't drive as have always lived and worked in London so no need really. I did try when I was 17 but had a crash the day before and 20 years later I am still wary of getting back in the driving seat. DH drives and really enjoys it, but we are moving to Bristol soon so I will need to learn.

I haven't read all of this thread but I don't find it pathetic that women don't want to drive long distances. Even when I get my license, DH will still do the majority of the driving because he is a very good driver and will have by then at least 30 years experience on me. It's just logical IMO.

.......I meant to say that the crash was the day before my test.

I think men do not have these fobias simply because they are socially unacceptable. Its ok for a woman to say "I am scared of driving on a rainy road" - her man will jump into the drivers seat. But a man can not say the same thing without looking like a fool- which is quite sexist! I moved to London four years ago, have driven loads on highways, on snow etc before, but the narrow streets of London and driving on the left side freaked me out. Now I have decided that I need to get a grip, stop behaving like a fool, so I have decided to just drive. My husband is in the passenger seat and I am the designated driver until I am as confident as I used to be. It is the only way.

I won't drive on motorways, I crap my pants when I'm on one! I had to travel on one to work recently and was nervous EVERY day. What's that all about? I thought i'd get used to it but I didn't-my heart rate rose, I'd hesitate overtaking I felt so pathetic. Haven't read through the responses of the thread so I don't know what peoples general consensus is but this is my one weakness that I'm allowed to have. Back off!

There are times when I choose to take the train so I can read, save money on parking and petrol etc. So I don't think its pathetic to choose public transport. I would also choose not to own a car if I lived in or around central London for financial reasons.

What I do find pathetic is licence holding, car owners who receive a call about a family emergency but refuse to drive the 20/30miles it would take to sort it out. This I have witnessed.

prettypurpledaisy - i concur. i have grown to hate driving because of the levels of road rage out there. i am also a bit paranoid about motorways because of fears of long distance drivers (esp from the continent) not being familiar with uk roads and falling asleep at the wheel

Ever since I started to drive the males around me treated me like they knew I wouldn't be able to do it. My dad freaked out when we went down a country lane. I had no idea why but I believed his imaginary world where I couldn't drive.
The same thing happened with my male driving instructor. He'd act like I couldn't drive, when, looking back, there was no problem.
I can drive now, on motorways, anywhere. I live in Asia and I drive about here, long distance.
But overcoming those early signals from people who didn't think I was capable just because I was a girl was quite difficult

I think there has been some helpful advice on this thread - bullynet is fine but what did you bring to the post apart from accusation?

Thanks to toyk who has enlightened me about trains and how to work the system so I dont think it is really expensive - I will try the train websites now I have had a lesson in finding cheaper tickets.

I will take public transport nd fly - as often it is far quicker and at the moment cheaper - though that part may well change

lastly taking away subsidy will nto improve the rail service it will just give an excuse as to why it is all so bad

It is all to do with organisation rather than money

I am not remotely dismissive of phobias. I am dismissive of women who automatically defer to men. As many do. The same women hand a bottle of wine and a corkscrew to the neared men as if somehow the possession of a penis helps with pulling corks out straight.

I too was a late learner - not passing my test until I was 23 and baby a year old, so initially I was scared of driving anywhere with the baby in the car...

Now i have a few years driving under my belt, I have to say the thing that frightens me most (and puts me off driving motorways etc) is the aggressive driving behaviour of (in my experience) MEN, luckily I walk to work most of the time but there are days when I have to go down the motorway to the other office and the thought TERRIFYS me, its not the distance or actually being on the motorways, its the aggressive and unsafe driving of men on these roads. If more people drove in a safe and lawful manner many people would feel more confident about driving but there's always the few who insist the roads were made for them personally and resent the fact there are other motorists on it!

I know what you mean. My mum would rather walk 15 mins to metro, get metro about 30 mins, then go for bus which is also over an hour and costs a fortune than drive for about 45 minutes to me. Although it is through the Tyne tunnel - she's not the only one I've heard say they don't like driving through there!

Seems mad to me, but if she isn't happy and doesn't feel safe I prefer it, especially if she has my daughter with her.

seeker - why is getting men to open the wine a sign of deferral to men? IMVHO opening wine is one of the few kitchen chores that all men master.

I don't really like the direction this thread has taken, and not just because I am one of those nervous women drivers.

Ok, we can say driving is a feminist issue etc etc, but how does that legitimise mocking and dismissing other women for their choices, fears, and lifestyle habits?

IMO finding other women "pathetic" for something they don't do is an example of a mock-macho behaviour whcih is frankly rather horrid. You are merely replicating men's "Mine is bigger than yours" mentality.

And to all of you who are pointing out that women are cheaper to insure, have fewer accidents etc so we should all drive more... perhaps that just means that women know their limits better than men and they won't do something as stupid and reckless as driving somewhere where they're not comfortable or experienced enough?