To tell the travellers...

[Starbuck999]

By my parents house to please fuck off?

Story is, my parents and their neighbours all clubbed together to buy a lovely piece of land that their terrace of houses over looks. None of them are rich and it was a large buy for them all but they all keep is beautifully and it is a lovely view for them all to enjoy, it's only a small patch of land, not what one could consider to be a field even. i think they have (had) plans to make it a play area for all the local children, or a sports field or something similar.

4 weeks ago, overnight, a few caravans appeared. Of course the residents went to speak to them to say it was private land (which they already knew as there are huge "private" signs all round it and they actually smashed down a large section of the fencing to drive their caravans in.) But the travellers refused to budge. They were very matter of fact and reasonably polite about the fact that they would not be moving and they knew the residents couldnt do anything to make them move right away. Lovely.

Now, whilst I fully appreciate anyone's right to live how they want, surely it should not be at the expense of others. It must be wonderful to live such a free life, moving from place to place if that is what you choose, but how can you not expect to pay? Caravans sites cost say £25 a night, they should be paying to stay in one, or buy their own land and live there.

The field is now horrendous. More and more caravans have been moved in, I'd say there's no about 20. There are huge piles of broken up crates, broken buggies, televisions etc and massive piles of general hosehold rubbish and food waste in black bags that have been split open by foxes I presume all round the edge of the land. It's starting to look like a landfill site!

I don't have the full details but basically the residents have been told nothing can be done to get rid of them right away, it will take time through the courts. Then they will be moved on. That's all that will happen. Now If I parked my car somewhere illegal it would be clamped, towed and I'd have a hefty fine - why doesn't the same apply?

AIBU?

The comparison with native Americans was from a historical pov, to compare the experiences of one culture colliding head-on with another. But I think there's merit to it on a purely day-to-day level too. They experience many of the same problems with high rates of alcoholism, unemployment, domestic abuse, lack of interest in participation in the education system, generally poor health and low life expectancy, a general cultural disaffection, and many rumours about theft and lack of respect for other people's property circulating in the areas surrounding reservations.

If the Travellers must expect criticism and hostility, so also can the settled community. Why should accommodation be all one way? There's an assumption of cultural superiority there that can only end badly for the disadvantaged group that is allegedly inferior, and deficient in its response to modern life. Ireland's disastrous approach, based on this kind of mindset, to the 'itinerants' of the 1960s blighted several generations of Travellers.

You can express frustration at the cry of racism and the kid glove approach, and scoff at the idea of liaison officers, but this radical approach by the Travellers is in response to decades of run-ins with authorities who claimed to know what was best for these people, who had been getting along relatively well all by themselves up to the time when government decided there was a problem and that it would deal with it regardless of how the Travellers themselves felt (in Ireland anyway). The whole mess is only now beginning to be unpicked, but huge damage has been done, not least the burning of bridges on the Traveller side.

Sounds awful starbuck, what a nightmare.

Yes, I understood the point you were trying to make in comparing them to Native Americans - but it's a misnomer. Their (ie the ones we're discussing here) attitudes to land is not one of respect for their environment, but rather lack of. The increase in crime rate is not a rumour, but a fact, and the idea of a liaison officer is not always a success story.

Native Americans who live on reservations live, ipso facto, in counties with the highest poverty rates in the US, where opportunities for economic growth are non-existent.

The land is the property of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, a section of the Department of the Interior. It is managed by the tribes, who have limited self-governing functions. The idea that Native Americans have some kind of holistic, spiritual attachment to the wide open spaces and are somehow the guardians of the Spirit of the Land is a Hollywood fabrication that bears little relation to reality. They live there because they were born there and are effectively trapped there.

a child was nearly taken from a local superstore; when her mum realised she was missing, she alerted security who shut the doors. They found her in the toilets with some traveller women who were changing her clothes and cutting off her hair

Are you sure? This has apparently happened nr me, and in several other places... have a look o snopes. It has details some of them.

Not saying it didn't happen Just that there are an AWFUL lot of urban legends about this one.

Sirboob that is an urban myth. It has been peddled for years. Some times its gypsies, sometimes its Somalians. You can look it up on that website (can someone remember what its called).

We have a large, established site near me. I live in a densely populated city area. You wouldnt know it was there. As far as I know they dont come out at night to rape women and steal children.

I am really sorry for the OP's parents.

I think it is disgusting however to lable all travellers as scum.

Hardly Maisie. Quite happy for people to share their experiences, good and bad. Just pointing out that coming onto a thread about a specific group of Travellers and warning the OP to lock up their dogs as Travellers are known to steal dogs actually is tarring them all with the same brush.

it isn't kinders. it is someone who has vast knowledge and experience in the rescue of dogs advising people to lock up their dogs because in her experience, the number of dog thefts by members of the travelling community is disproportionatley high. she has dealt with this first hand. if you had knowledge that could prevent animals being hurt or abused would you withold it?

From the Asda website

A completely false rumour about a child being abducted in an Asda supermarket has been spreading like wildfire on the internet and by text message in the past couple of days.

It?s a hoax story that appears regularly in a variety of guises, both in the UK and in the US. The story is usually that a little girl is abducted from her family while they are shopping, then taken to the toilets, where her head is shaved so she can be smuggled out as a boy.

This urban myth has circulated for more than 10 years and sometimes rears its head. It?s as untrue today as it?s ever been.

It?s clear from the number of calls we?ve received in the last 24 hours that it?s doing the rounds again.

Here?s the latest version some people have received as a text message or email:

?Dear All. This is a very serious message that I hope you can pass on to as many people as you can. Last night at the big Asda in Manchester a 3 year old girl went missing. Fortunately their policy when something like this happens is to lock the doors. The little girl was found in the toilets with 2 Romanian women. One shaving her head and the other dressing her in boys clothes. This come from an employee who was there last night. Please pass the message round to as many as you can and remain extra vigilant with your own children.?

So if you receive the message don?t worry about it ? have a Google around and you?ll see plenty of examples of the same story in many different guises and different places.

Posted by Mark on 13 November 2009, 11:20
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95 Comments for "Don't be taken in by this urban myth about a child abduction"

"Travelling communities" are almost inevitably utter scum with no respect for the law or the community they inflict themselves upon."

Lovely. No bigotry here then.

There is no point arguing with some people's stereotypes. And are you in the police LookToWindward?

Perhaps that attitude would explain the 4 year old Traveller child's terror described earlier when the police were mentioned to him. You're not exactly open minded about Travellers are you?

No, it's not - they are known to steal dogs, so why not point that out? Let's not be wishy washy about this - we're not talking about little old ladies with sprigs of lucky white heather or clothes pegs. This is a completely different breed of traveller (or tinker, as OneNameChange called them earlier) - you really need to move on from the rather romantic notion you seem to have of them as a poor, misunderstood minority going about their innocent ways.

Kinders that is twisting what I said. I stated as a fact that, as booy has kindly pointed out, that there is a disproportionately high incidence of theft in that community.

I speak from experience and was giving advice animal welfare is important to me. No, more than that, it's part of who I am. At no stage did I label all travellers as dog thiefs or tar them all with the same brush. In fact, as I stated earlier I count quite a few Showmen as my friends and know that many of the travelling community are anxious to behave respectfully wrt litter, property and so on.

Thank you booy.

Well Maisie, just in case I was in any doubt earlier, that clarifies that you are in fact tarring them all with the same brush.

Sorry, of course I mean dog theft in my second sentence, not theft as a whole.

Make sure you put a good lock on your shed, they'll have your rake.

Kinders, think what you will. You've put up a very spirited defence of the indefensible throughout the entire thread, but the reality of the travellers that we are discussing here is something that I suspect you're not really ready to accept just yet.

"Tell them to fuck off and tell locals to keep their dogs in sight at all times and not to leave them in gardens unattended."

...Was in fact what you said Valhalla, with your emphasis.

They wouldn't Snobear, not with 2 Gsds and a Labrador keeping watch! :o

YES I DID KINDERS!

I told the OP to ensure that those she is speaking of ensure that their dogs are not at risk of theft. I did so because theft of dogs, (FFS how many more times must I say this, are you actually READING what I'm typing, because it doesn't seem like it?) is a rapidly growing, cruel and deeply distressing crime and that personal experience has taught me that one sector of the community has a higher rate of committing it on a person to person ratio.

If YOU work with rescue and the lost dog volunteer community and have different experiences or knowledge, I'd be interested to hear of it.

BTW, I have a Jewish background, a West Indian cousin, Canadian family, German roots... if any of these were known to me to be responsible for a large number of dog thefts I'd be saying the same about them.

YANBU

Could they club together and get a tank and ammo that should get them moving .

One of the nicer schools in our area has just been forced to take in a massive amount of children from in illegal traveler camp, so that now a no go school for the rest of us.

I hope this gets sorted out and you get the land back soon

LookToWindWard, I have a feeling that personal and professional experience cuts no ice with Kinder.

Maisie, I just think that people here are sharing stories, some related to personal experience and some urban legends, but with a view to informing the OP and the rest of us just how bad Travellers are.

In any event my point is that we shouldn't be tarring these particular Travellers with the same brush.

Many people on this thread are doing just that and then denying it.

"I count quite a few Showmen as my friends"

Hmmm, how very generous of you Valhalla .

dont some travellers have their own house (bricks and mortar) and live in the winter and go on the road for the summer (fairs,festivals etc,sure i read that somewhere

would be intresting if anybody knows

'In any event my point is that we shouldn't be tarring these particular Travellers with the same brush.'

These particular travellers? You mean the ones currently trespassing on someone's property, trashing it and then going to hopefully move on, leaving it for the owners to repair? Oh no, I'm sure they're really lovely people.