to hide the feminism topic?

[CerealOffender]

the thread titles are all so serious and worthy and make me feel frivolous and unsisterly.

Crazycat I disagree with you so profoundly.

What are we supposed to say - none of my business? All that cosy homes stuff.. it would be a bit "i'm alright jack" if we didn't interest our selves in injustice and cruelty.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah Goblinchild. I think it can be a bit mosh-pitty in there but honestly no more than other topics.

Appletrees, agree.

I know what you mean Apples. It's absolutely our business. But the feminism forum is so dominated by these themes. Even though I'm sure it's not meant that way it can easily come across to outsiders as just such a cliche - oh here we go, feminists banging on about rape, abuse and the patriarchy again...

It's great that the people who really want to talk about these things can do so freely on MN, but the tone is frequently more militant than is tolerable or relevant to a wider group.

From me:
Btw "I hide feminism also - just cannot stand the aggressive ego driven drivel of worthy and shouty wimmin! (probably hairy truckers a lá VIZ)!!"

From Fallingfromthesky:
Ffs. At least you won't come across shite like that in the feminism topic.

Yes indeed, I like a sense of humour with my Mumsnet, thanks, Falling

I used to be a very well respected feminist, appointed onto national women's forums and advocacy panels for women in my (male dominated) profession, so I do know quite a lot about how shouty wimmin parade their ego driven worthy feminist credentials in yer face.

I just choose not to go there when I'm here, and leave it to those who don't shave, and who have a blunt axe to grind.

BTW Injustice and cruelty is not a feminist issue, it's a rights' issue... and not just human rights..

Agree with crazycatlady

I hardly ever venture onto the Feminism thread for that reason alone.

Every time I read a thread it's all too "men are bastards/abusers/stupid/controlling", and I find it unintelligent and divisive. There are the posters who respond to the effect that generalisations don't help, but there's too much militancy.

Life's not a competition with two teams - men or women - but there are too many people who regularly post on the feminism topic who insist on seeing everything in this light.

Yep, all us feminists are the same doncha know. Hairy and humourless .

Genuine question - on the previous page chipmonkey said feminism is about equality, but on many a thread on the feminism section I've seen feminism defined as pushing the agenda of women (and pretty much to the exclusion of all else). Which is it? And if it is genuinely about equality why is the feminism forum so one sided?

Too true Janos.

MadwithQuavers - I think your perception is interesting cos I don't see that at all.

There is an acknowledgement that most men aren't like that but there are a significant minority of men who do behave in those ways (abusive controlling etc) and that is challenged.

It's the opposite of the "oh well you know what men are like"(used to excuse a myriad of awful behaviours) view that you see on here a lot.

My take anyway.

Some people want to discuss, some people want to debate. Some people mistake debate for being shouted down and some people mistake shouting people down for debate. Feminism, as a section, lends itself to passionately held views more than other Mumsnet topics.

On another forum I'm on you get exactly the same complaints about religious debates.

It's not feminism, it's just people.

i like the topic, op you must hide more than you see

i don't like hiding anything if i can help it - apart from one or two ongoing threads

Well, that's me told zazen. Better get my sensible shoes on!

I like the feminism topic and post in it, but I do find it difficult when someone posts what appears to me to be a perfectly reasonable question and is greeted with a chorus of 'FFS, stop coming in a derailling our conversations'. (I don't mind when the comment is 'what about the men' but otherwise...).

There are a lot of people who don't know much academic feminist theory or are 'choice' feminists or 'equality' feminists who may just be trying to learn more but are jumped on from a great height because they use a phrase which is commonly associated with the patriarchy [given that most people are more familiar with mainstream media, surely someone asking a relevant question isn't necessarily trying to derail the thread?]

tbh this thread has made me glad I hid it.
I did have a look and tbh it seemed rather depressing,

I got shouted down on a feminist thread a while ago for saying that sometimes from a man's pov rape was 'sex gone wrong'. I didnt say they were right to think this or anything but I got flamed so laid low for a while.

But I've started posting again recently and def agree that there is no one definition of feminism and no one 'feminist voice'.

please could you link to the posts where you have been told you should be dressing like a trucker BrightLight? I rather think you are either misunderstanding or simply making things up

SugarMousePink, I'm quite happy to have my opinions challenged, and to discuss them, and even to change them. But simply to be told that because I hold them in the first place I am anti-woman isn't "challenging", it's insulting.

janos - I understand the point you are trying to make, but why is so much of the topic focussed on the dreadful behaviour of a minority of men? It's then used to colour any discussion about men, with the generalisation that all men are capable of the same behaviour.

As crazycatlady has just asked - is it about equality and general human/people rights issues, or is pushing a "women's agenda" the driver?

This is why I don't call myself a feminist. I believe people have certain rights but we are all individuals with differing needs.

I do think people have a perceived notion of feminism and therefore don't want to be associated with it (viz the various 'humourous' comments above).

I'm interested in fashion and I take care of my appearance. Among many other things.

I don't believe this precludes me from being a feminist.

The ButterflyEffect, I presume you are talking about my post on a recent thread. I have copied and pasted it here:

'One thing I have learned from mumsnet is that other peoples 'histories' are not the same as mine. We are not all approaching these sensitive issue from the same standpoint. I think what has happened in a persons past is relevant to how their advice should be perceived.

I have not been raped/abused/bullied/beaten so I do not speak as someone who has 'an axe to grind'. That is not a good choice of phrase I know but I can't think of another way to put it.'

The fact that you extrapolate that to mean this:

'Sadly, those of us who have been raped were told on a recent thread we have an axe to grind and should basically listen to those more objective than ourselves.'

is why it is so difficult to make progress on such charged topics.

I see what you're saying MadAboutQuavers.

I don't think saying all men are capable of rape (for example) is the same as saying all men are rapists.

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

By its nature, feminisim is going to be primarily concerned with women's rights and looking at issues from a female perspective.

Oh, this thread has struck a chord with me! Thank you for starting it.

I became disillusioned with the topic over the Eminem thread which someone has already mentioned. I thought it could be a really interesting, complex debate about art and music and how it reflects and distorts real life and experiences. Instead I left feeling as if I'd been beaten with a hammer (ironic, that) for not believing that

a) Eminem is a wife beater and that is all we are allowed to say about him
b) Rihanna is a victim and that is all we are allowed to say about her

God, it was just so tedious reading this over and over again, and any time anyone tried to suggest that Rihanna had some measure of control over her own life, they were told off because she is a woman and therefore she is a victim.

Someone mentioned shades of grey. That's it exactly. Shades of grey in life are what make all topics fascinating, disturbing, complex and interesting to debate. There doesn't seem to be any room for that on the feminism topic. Toe the party line, or you're a misogynist, basically.