to hide the feminism topic?

[CerealOffender]

the thread titles are all so serious and worthy and make me feel frivolous and unsisterly.

Oh well, TSH if you aren't actually going to link to or quote the posts which specifically said that prolific MN feminists would ignore anyone who didn't agree with them then I guess I'll stick with my interpretation - which is that you made that up

Not feeding trolls is not the same as 'ignoring anyone who disagrees with me' (unless a feminist says it it would seem ). The posts refer to here specifically mention new trolls who come to the dedicated feminist section in order to disrupt - twisting that to try to make it about some clique of bossy boots MNers lording it over other MNers is destructive and untrue.

Sorry to labour the point but I think it does the MN community no favours to have untruths about one section being posted on another.

TSH, your link illustrates the point I was trying to make earlier. Who are Lucinda and Marjorie? I apologise if both of them have been posting on MN for 5 years, but I have never heard of either of them, and yet they are both callling each other disruptive or whatever on the feminist section.

It is an argument between 2 posters who (to my mind) are not regulars. Or am I just ignorant about who the regulars are?

TSH you have linked to a thread with 500 posts on it - are you referring to a specific post or poster?

As far as I can see it is a discussion about trolls in the sense of people who come specifically to a website in order to disrupt but I've only scanned bits of it.

TSH if you quote the posts you have in mind where prolific MN feminists agreed that they would ignore other MNers who don't agree with them I will happily say that I am wrong.

I think this is getting to be a waste of both of our time however.

I don't really understand the difference between the arguments on this thread and the one linked to by the TSH.

On both threads, some of you want to hide the threads or posts that come from certain regular posters because you consider their posts to be rude/distressing/ridiculous.

So why don't both groups just ignore each other, and stop creating threads about who has more reason to hide/ignore the posts and threads of the other group?

In short, this thread is saying ' AIBU to ignore the feminist topic because I feel they are ignoring me?'

Well, ignore away, but then stop making out that there is something really terrible about ignoring people!

TSH finding the word 'ignore' means what exactly?

The thread is talking about the traditional type troll who comes to a forum with the specific intention of disrupting, causing trouble, derailing and upsetting. That thread has some of the regular feminist posters specifically saying that anyone is welcome apart from trolls who come specifically to disrupt.

The word ignore is being used in this context not to refer to other MNers who come to have honest discussion.

Anyway whatever - you seem determined to misinterpret. I am determined to get myself off MN and go and finish some work.

This silly discussion is now starting to derail this thread. I will now cease to hijack on this subject and let the thread continue its course.

Well, I can personally attest that what ShriekingHarpy says is true - I've been told by at least one prominent poster on that topic that I would be ignored there from now on.

It's obviously a bit more loaded because I am a man. But the 3 or 4 times I have tried to join a thread on that section, I have been rudely and unceremoniously shouted down.

I was told I wasn't welcome as it is a space for discussing "women's issues" and that if you want to make a "Wot abaht the Menz" point ("the Menz" is what they call us - excuse me, I need to sew my sides up) then you need to create your own space to discuss "men's issues". While this may be true on some subjects, there are others where it simply isn't a gender-specific issue, and the whole point of my intervention was that both sides needed to be heard.

I've given up now, though...

Yes, "the Menz" is pretty horrid. Where did that term come from?

Even if it's not expressed with hate, the message it gives out, to me, is one that says men are not relevant, who cares about men, we can carry on perfectly well without them thank you very much.

TSH you initially said that at the inauguration of the feminist section a group of posters announced they would ignore anyone who disagreed with them.

You are now linking to a thread months after the section began which is talking about some pretty outrageous trolling (posters defending a guy who writes about chopping women up, mutilating them and then raping them).

You are talking bull.

I'm now going to hide this thread as what is happening here is derailing.

Anyhoo I hope people who fancy a go at the feminist section will do just that - and those who don't fancy it will do...just that. Profound me.

UQD that's terrible. All this makes me very nervous about posting there at all

The thing that makes me laugh is that section is probably the most bitchy and unpleasant section on MN - and that's saying something.

Having participated in this thread, what is now putting me off joining in with the feminism board on MN is that it has become clear that questioning or opposition to feminist viewpoints are not welcome on the feminism board.

While I can quite understand feminism regulars not wanting every internet idiot trapsing in and being deliberately inflammatory, I suspect there are a few of us who are less familiar with feminism or unsure or uncomfortable about certain aspects of it who would like to be able to question or challenge without being pounced on.

I also think it's pretty unhealthy for any movement, political or otherwise, not to be able to be questioned or challenged by people who have a different view, people from within it or, god forbid, men.

Sorry just a last word and then I'll leave you to it.

"What about the menz" does NOT mean that we do not need/care about/etc men.

I already linked to an explanation of what it does mean.

finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/

"Short answer: Nothing in and of itself. The problem occurs when conversations about women can?t happen on unmoderated blogs without someone showing up and saying, ?but [x] happens to men, too!? (also known as a ?Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too? or PHMT argument, or a ?What About The Mens?? or WATM argument). When this happens, it becomes disruptive of the discussion that?s trying to happen, and has the effect (intended or otherwise) of silencing women?s voices on important issues such as rape and reproductive rights.

No one is saying that discussions on men and masculinities shouldn?t go on. It is absolutely important to have dialogue on men?s issues, including discussions on violence done towards men. The thing is, a feminist space ? unless the topic is specifically men?s issues ? is not the place to have that discussion and neither are spaces (feminist or otherwise) in which the topic is specifically focused on women?s issues.

What it boils down to is this: Men, not women, need to be the ones creating the spaces to discuss men?s issues."

I absolutely disagree with that beachcomber. One cannot separate things out like that. You can't have a valid discussion if it can only be about women.
No that's all wrong.

When I say talking about people behind their backs, I put it to you that some people might choose to ignore the AIBU threads because in general they (might) feel that they degenerate into unpleasant namecalling and questioning of the veracity of one or more posters credentials or story or both.

Thus they might not be aware that you are discussing them.

(Disclaimer: I am talking in general terms; just as many posters on this thread say they are. I am absolutly not having a go at anyone. You are all entitled to your opinions, my only objection is that you do it here and not there)

I am sorry I am so behind the argument (time difference of 6 hours doesn't help), but I did want to make the additional point that, in all sections of MN there are people who shout "troll" at those they don't agree with; in all sections are people routinely ignored and/or vilified; in all sections as a poster you can be insulted and attacked unfairly.

Why single out the feminist board for such criticim? Why should it be different? Or are feminists somehow not supposed to be normal MNetters?

Yes, catinahatita - there is the distinct tone that those on the feminist boards are not normal mumsnetters e.g. when someone said we don't stay on our board but air our opinions on threads in relationships and stuff.

Correction: "my only objection is that you should be doing it here and not there".

Addition: I don't think that such behaviour (ignoring/namecalling/shouting troll etc) is a good thing; it just that happens everywhere and perhaps should be attacked as a MN problem and not a feminist one.