to want my PIL to stop pressuring me about visiting them 9 hrs away alone with 2 toddlers?

[teaandcakeplease]

This is going to be quite a long one but I really have to get this off my chest and I need some sympathy, truth be told and if you have any ideas on how I can deal with this that I haven?t tried already, that would be great.

Bit of background; my H and I are in the process of a divorce as he has chosen to forsake me and the 2 DCs for the OW. I did want to work things out, however he couldn?t and didn?t want to end the relationship. The divorce begun in April, it?s fairly amicable, no arguments as yet over anything and the decree nisi application was submitted to court on 17 July. H comes and sees the DCs twice a week, sometimes 3 times and is great with them, plays with them etc. I do have a thread on here about the sorry saga from a while ago, so some of you may recognise me.

My PIL have owned a large house in Montrose for many years, MIL bought it just after I started dating her son and they have recently chosen to sell their house down here near me and relocate to Scotland. They wanted to save more for retirement and it made sense to sell one of their properties. Truthfully it is difficult to imagine her retiring and she has said that she has no intention to for at least another 10 years, she works in Switzerland and comes over to the UK once a month for a weekend, sometimes stays longer. So my FIL actually lives without her most of the time. But they needed to sell a property to save for retirement and have done that.

The property in Montrose was being let out as a holiday home previously but they weren?t earning as much as needed to cover all the overheads as I understand it. So they decided now was a good time to sell up and relocate. MIL grew up in Montrose and wants to retire up there. Ever since I?ve known her I?ve always understood they would retire up there, it?s naturally their decision of course and I?m fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the fact that ever since my FIL moved up there every time he rings me to see how the GCs are, he always asks without fail ?when am I going up there to stay for 7 days?? MIL also whenever she sees me asks me the same. I feel almost bullied and pressured to go and stay for 7 days, every time they see me, as no matter how I try to explain things, I cannot get them to see my point of view. I want my DCs to have a good relationship with them and have said that if they can just wait a while longer, they?ll both be older and easier to manage in a car on longer journeys but right now as they?re both so young it is a lot to ask and it would be far easier for them to pack a small bag and come down to me instead and are welcome anytime.

I?m a lone parent now, with a 3 year old DD (just turned 3, I might add) and a 19 month old DS, their son has left me for a 21 year old, Montrose is 9 hours drive from me, if the traffic was good and I didn?t stop at all on the way up there and they expect me to pack up 2 toddlers, travel cots, ready bed, bedding, toys (as they have none up there), buggy and all the associated paraphernalia you have for 2 toddlers and drive on my own up there. My friends are lovely but all work full time or have families of their own and wouldn?t be able to come with me to help. My parents are elderly and aren?t able to offer to keep me company on the long journey either. When I try and tell them how stressful it would be to do it with 2 toddlers on my own. They then tell me that my H can come up with me. We?re in the middle of a divorce, yes we?re managing to keep it amicable but they do not seem to understand that it?s not appropriate for him to come and stay with me and the DCs for a week in Scotland. Not that the other woman?s feelings truly concern me but I?m pretty sure she wouldn?t be too impressed either, if H went away with his soon to be ex wife for a whole week. I sometimes think H?s parents haven?t quite grasped the fact we?re divorcing. MIL insists we just need to be grown ups about this and come up together to see them regularly. My DD has only just gotten used to the fact that daddy doesn?t live with us anymore and it would be very hard for her if he came with us for a week and then at the end, left us again. She?s so young and she still doesn?t truly understand why he no longer lives with us. I don?t want to confuse her or upset her and I know it would. She spent months crying and whimpering ?daddy gone, daddy lost? the last thing I want to do is confuse her again.

The thought of trying to drive at night with them instead, has crossed my mind but it would be too dangerous and I?d fall asleep at the wheel. I suppose I could arrange to stay in a B&B on the way up at a half way point and then finish the drive the following day? But it?s too much to ask of a daughter in law with 2 toddlers on her own I think and unfair. My DS gets fed up in his car seat after a while and I have to pass toys back to him regularly. I?ve tried story CDs, Kids music, great for DD, DS doesn't help I can time naps for the car journey I suppose as that?d help but he?d only sleep 90 mins in the day max in the car. So the rest of the time would require toys being passed back etc. My DD has only just been potty trained as well and I need to take her to the loo often to avoid accidents. I suppose I could put her in pull ups for the day? However it all comes back to the fact it?s an awful lot to ask of a DIL when they chose to move 9 hrs away, their choice and their son has left me to cope on my own. I keep saying it?ll be easier once they?re bigger and it won?t be long, I?m sure by next Summer it won?t be so bad to do it but they do not seem to take my point of view on board at all.

FIL called last night on the phone yet again and asked and dismissed all my concerns again, I felt so fed up as this has been going on since last October (he only finally moved 6 weeks ago and has already seen the GCs twice since then down here) I am always polite about it and keep trying to tell them how much easier it would be if they could just see me down here for now but they just do not let it lie. It all seems so unreasonable to constantly pressure me to go up there. MIL is often in the UK on business and it?s always in London so she is able to see the GCs lots anyway. FIL often comes down here too. I cannot see why they cannot take my pov on board. As my door is always open to them but I just want to wait until the DCs are slightly older to go up to Montrose on my own with them. As it is it would be a tough week and not relaxing with them and I know that. Life?s so hard with 2 toddlers, a divorce going through and money worries without this constant pressure from my PIL to go and stay in their lovely house. I?m sure the DCs would enjoy it of course but I just wish they?d listen to me and wait until next year. They chose to move 9 hours away from both their sons and their grandchildren and now I feel like they expect me to up sticks whenever they ask to go up there, when this wasn?t my choice or decision. I am also 100% certain that if I do the journey once they?ll then assume it?s no bother and expect me to go up there everytime MIL takes time off work, so I feel like I?m stuck between a rock and a hard place right now as I do not think I can win either way really, as they do not appreciate what they?re asking of me and what about if I ever meet a new man and he wants to do things with me and the DCs? What about when I return to work and only get 20 days holiday a year? What about the financial costs, the petrol is a lot too? If I could just agree to go up twice a year that would be ok I guess, if they came to me the rest of the time but I cannot see things being that straight forward, having known them now for 9 years

So what would you do in my situation as I was nearly close to tears last night when FIL yet again put me under pressure to go up there, as I?m about fit to burst with frustration now. Life is so hard right now, coming to terms with my marriage being over and being a lone parent with 2 toddlers Are my requests unreasonable?

Sorry for not having read the whole thread, but read the OP - just giving some tips if you do decide to go up on your own - I've done a similar length journey on my own with my DCs (also similar ages - 3 1/4 and 22 months).

I found the best thing to do was to set off after a (late) lunch when DD2 normally sleeps anyway. (And often DD1 will sleep if in the car straight after lunch, but not always). So I do 2 1/2 hours without stopping, and stop then for a snacky tea and a stretch-your-legs stop. Set off again and do another 2+ hour stretch until supper time - take PJs and bedtime milks (if needed) with you and change kiddies after supper and put them into carseats for bedtime sleeps (this way you should only really have one stretch with them both awake). Drive another couple of hours or so and stop off at a B&B (I actually stayed at relatives in Cumbria last time) - children already asleep so carry them in asleep.

Next morning you only should have one 2 1/2 hour stretch to do.

It's hard work, but as long as your PILs (sort of) realise you'll be quite tired when you arrive, and leap in to help, it is doable.(And also don't expect you to be able to do it more than about twice a year).

Good luck to you. It must be tough for you :(

Also, I get a little box/bag of toys for each child (crayons & scribble book/cars/dolls/reading books) and keep something like picture cards back for when they're fed up of their toys (or have dropped them all on the floor!).

YANBU.

(I suspect where your in-laws are is about 50% Anniegetyourgun and 50% Katisha, myself. But I would be giving them the benefit of the doubt and being sympathetic to them, so long as it didn't mean giving in.)

You are not being unreasonable - I have done that journey a number of times and its tough, you cant even get a flight to get to montrose easily as the only way to then get to montrose is via bus through johnshaven and all the tiny villages on the way down which takes hours and is a pita with kids. Ask if he will come down and help you travel.

Surely the point is not that other people (few) have done it, but that you are, at this point in your life, tired and exhausted looking after such young children on your own most of the time and it's not the right time for you to start driving 9 hours anywhere. I have only just started driving on my own to see friends with a four and a six year old, and I find that quite stressful enough. I also get very tired driving (due to medication) and so can't drive more than about three/four hours a day, it would take me three days to get there!

I would look into flying again, don't worry about car seats etc, they can arrange all that stuff if you are doing them such an immense favour. They will enjoy getting a cot, making up beds. But I would not go til next summer, when you are feeling less wrung out (you must be emotionally as well as physically exhausted) and more on top of things yourself. Tough on them if that's not what they want. My MIL plaintively says 'when are you coming to X?' every single time she phones. I've got hardened to it now, and say 'soon'. And, then I travel there when I have the time and energy and when I can get an extra pair of hands. Continue to welcome them to your house, reiterate how much you would like to come to visit, but not right now, and plan for when the children are older.

tea, you sound absolutely lovely and as you know YA most definitely NBU

I would have lost my temper looooong ago with these PIL. Honestly, if it were me, next time they mentioned it I would be as firm and serious as I could manage and say 'It's not going to happen for all the many and various reasons I have already outlined to you many times. I am really tired of you asking me about it and I refuse to discuss it again.' And stick to it. If they try to ask you about it again just say 'I refuse to discuss it'. I can't see how else you will be able to get the message across.

DH and I did a very long drive with DD a few weeks ago and it was HORRENDOUS for all of us, and that was 2 adults and one toddler so nothing like what they are asking of you. Perhaps if you get really desperate you could spell out exactly what it is that they are asking of you, and all the other things you have on your plate atm, and spell out how unreasonable they are being.

I think you are behaving wonderfully btw, what a hard and stressful situation you are in and yet you sound so thoughtful and gracious, I am truly in awe

BubbaAndBump you're not selling it to me It's such a mission, you're a better person than me.

Anniegetyourgun - you speak a lot of sense. Certainly my MIL is indeed like an express train on many things. The nap arguement has been going on since my first child was a baby, everytime I see them she always tries to tell me neither need naps now, except I know my 2 DCs are nap monsters and they need their sleep, always have and are happier for it but she tries to rail road me everytime I see them.

The last time I had a disagreement with her my DD was 4 months old, we?d gone to stay with her in Zurich and DD was so over tired from being dragged pillar to post all day, she was hysterical by bedtime and took a long time to calm to sleep. It was a disaster as she didn't give me time to feed her every 3 hours, so she was also waking more at night for feeds, so I was exhausted. MIL when I finally came out of the room calming DD proceeded to lay into me and claim DD wasn?t tired and that babies just go to sleep when they?re tired, they do not cry when over tired also she must have been hungry as I?m BF her and I should give her formula. She?s undermined me about breast feeding a lot and used to try and bully me into formula, so there is a long history with her. She is a career woman and is a strong, independent and intelligent woman, very high up in a Company and put both of her children into care very quickly and returned to work, she is very successful and works very hard. I am the total opposite of her as I wanted to bring them up like my mum did with me, with part time work instead and just manage financially on less, so they see more of me, like my mum. So she?s often bullied me about returning to work as well. My mum is also pro breast feeding and breast fed me and all my 4 brothers. So I naturally wanted to do things the way I was brought up. MIL is like a dog with a bone on every issue she disagrees with and just doesn?t agree to disagree, so this whole saga about Scotland and I should go up there is becoming harder and harder. I actually dread seeing them now as if STBXH isn?t there as well, they both come at me FIL and MIL about the fact I must go up there, like a good cop, bad cop situation. Short of completely loosing it with them which I do not want to do, I am at a total loss, as I try to state my reasons in a sensible fashion but it falls on deaf ears everytime. Broken record is the way forward it appears, I just wish they?d let it lie though. May buy that book.

Katisha's comments probably aren't far off either. I've thought that too.

DS is just waking again, so I better dash

After your last post have you thought about trying to limit contact with them? They sound like bullying arseholes and I would try and keep them at arms length.

OTO completely losing it with them tends to work a treat with pushy people.

Have only read your OP, but they sound crazy and you are soooo NBU. You are a better woman than me teaandcakes, I wouldn't have even considered such a thing. Asking someone to travel 9 hours is a very big ask, especially a DIL who has just been dumped by their son for another woman. Let your ex handle this, he can take on the responsibility of the children maintaining contact with his family, you don't have to.

I think the idea of spending a week with your ex's parents is a strange one even if they lived nearer.
I'd bluntly tell them you are now separated from their son and so would not be visiting them for a week, but stress you aren't stopping them seeing their grandchildren, but that they will have to come south and see them, and that you will not be taking the children to Scotland, so can they please stop hassling you.

If they are fit and well off I don't see why they don't realise it's more sensible for them to travel, although it doesn't sound like you'd want them seeing that much of the kids anyway.
They should be arranging to visit their son and see the kids then.

YANBU, they sound incredibly annoying. Frankly, I would get caller ID and simply ignore their calls from now on. They are not related to you anymore and their DS should be the one responsible for facilitating contact between GPs and GCs. In the circumstances, I actually think it is exceedingly generous of you to offer to have them to visit - and for them to have further expectations of you is just insane.

hi, tea and c, i remember you from other threads, you are incredibly civilizise, keeping a good relationship with your pil, they should be sooo glad that they won't be depending on their son to take the kids and can come to you to see them, even welcome in your home, that is not something you can say very often.

my pil also live very far, we need to fly, but is two adults and one baby, i wouldn't dare go on my own, and they are providing everything, even nappies and formula, so i only need to take with me what i need for the journey and a few pacifiers, favorite toy, familiar blanket, they even got a pram, iyswim ...

how can you think you are unreasonable?
advice: don't argue, make a statement:' you can come to see them when you want, we will go to scotland they are older, so when are you coming?' avoid conversations that put you in a difficult position by answering with a question, when are you coming to scotland?, i can't at the moment, but it would be great if you came to visit... and start conversation about him coming to visit...

sorry, is not great advise, but is the best i can think of...

I would be tempted to put it all in a letter. That way you can phrase it exactly the way you want to, without interruptions or contradiction.

You can spell out exactly how difficult it will be (I wouldn't do it either) and end on a positive note about the future when you do think you could make the journey.

Then leave the phone on answerphone for a few days and leave them enough time to let it sink in.

Letter good idea IMO.

Minor point, but rather than "I can't" say "I won't". Otherwise they will carry on thinking they can persuade you that its all perfectly feasible. YOu have to make it clear this is your decsion, thought through in a rational manner.

Say they dont have to worry they will lose contact with children, but they cannot expect to to behave as if nothing has happened with H. It's not a question of being "grown-up". FGS it's a divorce, not a minor disagreement.

Also not fair on young children to suddenly have both parents on scene again.

Say you hope the children will have lots of happy long holidays in scotland when they are older.

I think the children are almost a red-herring here - to me it sounds like they are hoping to get you, H and the children there playing happy families and that they're somehow thinking you will cancel the divorce, H will ditch the OW and you'll welcome H back with open arms.

In your position I would write to them, then you can express yourself clearly without them butting in and disagreeing with you all the time.
Thank them for inviting you but say that life is hard on your own with two todders, you are still coming to terms with ex-H leaving you for a 21-year old, obviously it would be quite impossible for you and H to be there at the same time, your children - especially DD - are still coming to terms with their Daddy not living with them and are easily upset. You value the relationship, BUT for the foreseeable future it will need to be them coming to you and not the other way around.

And when the time does come that you feel able to make the trip, ask them to at least buy a travel cot and a folding buggy so that you haven't got to take absolutely everything with you. Don't mention this too soon though, otherwise they may rush out and buy a whole load of clobber and use that as additional pressure 'Look you won't need to bring anything', to try and get you to go up there sooner rather than later.

Don't mention this too soon though, otherwise they may rush out and buy a whole load of clobber and use that as additional pressure 'Look you won't need to bring anything', to try and get you to go up there sooner rather than late

So true, that's exactly what would happen. If they bought lots of things for me to make it easier, I know the onus would also be on me to visit more as it would be so easy

Someone posted earlier about the PIL and their "grand plan" - i.e. moving to Montrose, having GC to stay every summer etc etc, involving the whole extended family in their retirement dream in order to validate it.

That rings true for me, and I bet that OP and H divorcing never featured in the plan, so as far as PIL are concerned it's not really happening, let's just carry on as we were.

My mum is a bit like this. She loves scenario planning and once something exists in her head, it's like it's destined to happen. In fact it's almost aleady happened. She is incredibly hard to derail and she doesn't like it one bit when you try. She can get quite aggressive.

YADNBU, OP, and good luck with the broken record tactic. You sound like a saint to have put up with it, especially your MIL, for so long. I suspect many people would have used divorce as an opportunity to drop the PIL like a hot brick!

FIL is great with my children though. My Dad is Victor Meldrew and very grumpy and not tolerant of young kids at all, whereas FIL is great, so I don't want to drop them, so to speak. FIL does also ask about Scotland too of course. MIL I'd be happy to ditch! LOL sadly if I want one, it's both

DS is still unhappy, I might take him to the GP tomorrow if he doesn't perk up by morning. Poor soul. Trying to think of something for tea that he'd enjoy eating right now, feeling poorly.

I completely agree about the grand plan, I think it was Katisha originally who said.

MIL has always had grand plans about all sorts of things and I'm certain this is another one. It'll be great once the kids are older and H could cope taking them up without me. One day

Actually teaandcake, your last post made me wonder why their dad can't take them? Only just occurred to me when you wrote that (sorry if this has already been covered)

Yeah it's been covered in my 9:05 post and last night at about 20:41.

It's not fair on the DCs regardless, it's a bloody long way to travel with tots alone, whether it's mummy or daddy.

Teaandcake, when I mentioned this morning "a SIL/BIL/other relation or family friend who you get on with", I was thinking: if such a person exists, you could perhaps explain your (absolutely reasonable) thinking to her/him. And then she/he could put your point of view to the PIL. The idea being that PIL might be better able to see your point of view if a family member/friend "intermediary" put it across to them.

I guess that your 21-year-old BIL is not best placed to do this. Might there be someone else who could do this, though?

It's just a thought.

But everything you've posted here has "Reasonable, thoughtful, kind" person stamped all over it. Keep on with the "broken record" idea - your children are too young to undertake the journey; you can't play happy families with your H; but your PIL are always welcome to visit, etc., etc.

Sadly, many women in your position would be tempted to break off all contact with PIL. All credit to you for not doing this. I hope your PIL realise how lucky they are that you are their DIL and mother of their GC.

I hope you find the happiness you deserve with someone wonderful who will love and cherish you.

Also hope your DS is feeling better now.

Good luck and all good wishes.

Awww thank you I can't think of anyone no.

Sadly MIL is the one driving the express train here and Anniegetyourgun is right on the money here. I don't think she will listen to anyone. Broken record it is then

DS's eye does look sore, I think I'll take him to the GP tomorrow for a check over, unless he dramatically improves over night.

Hope his eye gets better. It will probably be fine in the morning if he's been rubbing it.

Hope DS better.

Yanbu.

I wouldn't bother writing them a letter, that's a sensitive thing to do and not the way I'd deal with her as she sounds more direct. Stick a sign next to the phone for next time this arises to remind you what to say and keep it short, eg:

'please try to see this from my perspective. We won't be able to make the journey up for a few years till the kids are bigger. Please let's not keep talking about this as it's stressful and unnecessary; you know you are welcome here whenever.'

Do that spiel with fil and mil. When they try to debate or repeat have one follow up line to cover all bases. Don't let them question it, just parrot out:

-'we will make the journey in a few years. Please can we stop talking about it now as I'm not going to change my mind. In the meantime you are welcome to spend as much time as you want with GC here.'

Good luck!