to want my PIL to stop pressuring me about visiting them 9 hrs away alone with 2 toddlers?

[teaandcakeplease]

This is going to be quite a long one but I really have to get this off my chest and I need some sympathy, truth be told and if you have any ideas on how I can deal with this that I haven?t tried already, that would be great.

Bit of background; my H and I are in the process of a divorce as he has chosen to forsake me and the 2 DCs for the OW. I did want to work things out, however he couldn?t and didn?t want to end the relationship. The divorce begun in April, it?s fairly amicable, no arguments as yet over anything and the decree nisi application was submitted to court on 17 July. H comes and sees the DCs twice a week, sometimes 3 times and is great with them, plays with them etc. I do have a thread on here about the sorry saga from a while ago, so some of you may recognise me.

My PIL have owned a large house in Montrose for many years, MIL bought it just after I started dating her son and they have recently chosen to sell their house down here near me and relocate to Scotland. They wanted to save more for retirement and it made sense to sell one of their properties. Truthfully it is difficult to imagine her retiring and she has said that she has no intention to for at least another 10 years, she works in Switzerland and comes over to the UK once a month for a weekend, sometimes stays longer. So my FIL actually lives without her most of the time. But they needed to sell a property to save for retirement and have done that.

The property in Montrose was being let out as a holiday home previously but they weren?t earning as much as needed to cover all the overheads as I understand it. So they decided now was a good time to sell up and relocate. MIL grew up in Montrose and wants to retire up there. Ever since I?ve known her I?ve always understood they would retire up there, it?s naturally their decision of course and I?m fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the fact that ever since my FIL moved up there every time he rings me to see how the GCs are, he always asks without fail ?when am I going up there to stay for 7 days?? MIL also whenever she sees me asks me the same. I feel almost bullied and pressured to go and stay for 7 days, every time they see me, as no matter how I try to explain things, I cannot get them to see my point of view. I want my DCs to have a good relationship with them and have said that if they can just wait a while longer, they?ll both be older and easier to manage in a car on longer journeys but right now as they?re both so young it is a lot to ask and it would be far easier for them to pack a small bag and come down to me instead and are welcome anytime.

I?m a lone parent now, with a 3 year old DD (just turned 3, I might add) and a 19 month old DS, their son has left me for a 21 year old, Montrose is 9 hours drive from me, if the traffic was good and I didn?t stop at all on the way up there and they expect me to pack up 2 toddlers, travel cots, ready bed, bedding, toys (as they have none up there), buggy and all the associated paraphernalia you have for 2 toddlers and drive on my own up there. My friends are lovely but all work full time or have families of their own and wouldn?t be able to come with me to help. My parents are elderly and aren?t able to offer to keep me company on the long journey either. When I try and tell them how stressful it would be to do it with 2 toddlers on my own. They then tell me that my H can come up with me. We?re in the middle of a divorce, yes we?re managing to keep it amicable but they do not seem to understand that it?s not appropriate for him to come and stay with me and the DCs for a week in Scotland. Not that the other woman?s feelings truly concern me but I?m pretty sure she wouldn?t be too impressed either, if H went away with his soon to be ex wife for a whole week. I sometimes think H?s parents haven?t quite grasped the fact we?re divorcing. MIL insists we just need to be grown ups about this and come up together to see them regularly. My DD has only just gotten used to the fact that daddy doesn?t live with us anymore and it would be very hard for her if he came with us for a week and then at the end, left us again. She?s so young and she still doesn?t truly understand why he no longer lives with us. I don?t want to confuse her or upset her and I know it would. She spent months crying and whimpering ?daddy gone, daddy lost? the last thing I want to do is confuse her again.

The thought of trying to drive at night with them instead, has crossed my mind but it would be too dangerous and I?d fall asleep at the wheel. I suppose I could arrange to stay in a B&B on the way up at a half way point and then finish the drive the following day? But it?s too much to ask of a daughter in law with 2 toddlers on her own I think and unfair. My DS gets fed up in his car seat after a while and I have to pass toys back to him regularly. I?ve tried story CDs, Kids music, great for DD, DS doesn't help I can time naps for the car journey I suppose as that?d help but he?d only sleep 90 mins in the day max in the car. So the rest of the time would require toys being passed back etc. My DD has only just been potty trained as well and I need to take her to the loo often to avoid accidents. I suppose I could put her in pull ups for the day? However it all comes back to the fact it?s an awful lot to ask of a DIL when they chose to move 9 hrs away, their choice and their son has left me to cope on my own. I keep saying it?ll be easier once they?re bigger and it won?t be long, I?m sure by next Summer it won?t be so bad to do it but they do not seem to take my point of view on board at all.

FIL called last night on the phone yet again and asked and dismissed all my concerns again, I felt so fed up as this has been going on since last October (he only finally moved 6 weeks ago and has already seen the GCs twice since then down here) I am always polite about it and keep trying to tell them how much easier it would be if they could just see me down here for now but they just do not let it lie. It all seems so unreasonable to constantly pressure me to go up there. MIL is often in the UK on business and it?s always in London so she is able to see the GCs lots anyway. FIL often comes down here too. I cannot see why they cannot take my pov on board. As my door is always open to them but I just want to wait until the DCs are slightly older to go up to Montrose on my own with them. As it is it would be a tough week and not relaxing with them and I know that. Life?s so hard with 2 toddlers, a divorce going through and money worries without this constant pressure from my PIL to go and stay in their lovely house. I?m sure the DCs would enjoy it of course but I just wish they?d listen to me and wait until next year. They chose to move 9 hours away from both their sons and their grandchildren and now I feel like they expect me to up sticks whenever they ask to go up there, when this wasn?t my choice or decision. I am also 100% certain that if I do the journey once they?ll then assume it?s no bother and expect me to go up there everytime MIL takes time off work, so I feel like I?m stuck between a rock and a hard place right now as I do not think I can win either way really, as they do not appreciate what they?re asking of me and what about if I ever meet a new man and he wants to do things with me and the DCs? What about when I return to work and only get 20 days holiday a year? What about the financial costs, the petrol is a lot too? If I could just agree to go up twice a year that would be ok I guess, if they came to me the rest of the time but I cannot see things being that straight forward, having known them now for 9 years

So what would you do in my situation as I was nearly close to tears last night when FIL yet again put me under pressure to go up there, as I?m about fit to burst with frustration now. Life is so hard right now, coming to terms with my marriage being over and being a lone parent with 2 toddlers Are my requests unreasonable?

Hi Tea,

I would get a puppy and say you can't leave it alone in the house, not toilet trained and it's too young to go somewhere to be looked after....maybe you don't even have to get one, just say you have. Not seriously suggesting that, but it's an idea.

I'm in the middle of a divorce too, my PIL seem to have dropped off the edge of the world! But fortunately my ex goes to see them with my dd occasionally, though not with my ds (lot older and would rather stay here with his girlfriend)

YANBU by the way. I would find that very stressful.

H has one younger brother age 21 only. Who could never get 7 days off of work, as he does gigs as well as chef work. They've been bedgering him to go up there too ever since they moved. He's not married yet.

*badgering

I wonder if part of their rationale for keeing the Montrose house was the idea that their family would all come and join them for holidays, regardless of the actual circumstances.

I reckon part of this (as well as the denial) is that they may somewhat need you to justify their choice in choosing to live somewhere pretty remote, by being v v keen to spend holidays there with them.

Too bad. That can come later for DCs. No rush.

And yes agree that you need to get your Christmas plans sorted now before that becomes major.

I live very close to Montrose, and as a single parent I used to travel to Cambridge by myself on the train with 2 children similar ages to yours, so that we could visit my mum. It wasnt that bad actually! I did it about twice a year from when my DD was 6 weeks old. I have also done it by myself with 3 children (DS was just a baby).

So, because I managed I am going to say YABU. Also because its gorgeous up here! Who wouldnt want a holiday here

Being in a slightly similar position, I think Katisha might have an answer there.

I also agree with everyone that you need your broken record phrase sorted out - 'That won't be possible until the children are bigger. When are you going to come and see us?'

Also where do you live? Montrose is on the main North East line, so its very easy to get to.

I just wanted to add to this thread to say of course you're not being unreasonable... but I also don't think the PILs are being unreasonable.

To me this reads as though they are terrified that they are going to lose contact with the children (and you - who they probably feel very warmly towards after all these years) and are trying in a ham-fisted way to make you feel welcome and wanted, independent of your x/h.

If you can, I would try to stop seeing this as them pressurising you, and try to see it as them doing their utmost to stay in touch and keep the door open. I know that when my parents separated my paternal grandmother was very anxious at the idea of losing contact with my mum who she had become very fond of.

It's a huge compliment to you that they want you to come and stay and want to stay in touch in spite of the divorce - many people in the same situation would side with their son and wash their hands.

So you are absolutely NOT being unreasonable to feel stressed and pressured over this, and I'm totally not saying you should drop everything and run. But I think (hope) their actions stem from anxiety and love, and will probably calm down when they realise you have no intention of cutting strings.

Since my ex and I separated his parents have seen the kids through him. As their dad it's important to see the kids regularly and do parenting things like take the kids on holiday and to visit his relatives.
Are you encouraging your ex to have the kids for weekends/ weeks or are you too bitter about the OW to let him have the kids for long?
I'd tell his parents that they should be contacting their son to sort out seeing their grandchildren, and agree it makes more sense for them to travel south and stay in a B&B if not practical to stay with their son.

I think the "lone parent" term is misleading. Your kids still have 2 parents, you just don't live together. Encourage him to parent more. In the long term that's much better for the kids.

Maduggar I don't think you can compare going to see your mum with my PIL situation when I'm in the middle of a divorce and they've only recently moved (their own choice) when both their DCs and GCs live down here and now constantly pressure me. If it was my Mum, I'd probably do it no matter how hard the journey was. But it's not and the PIL have seen the DCs already several times since the move whilst down this way, and are seeing them again on the second weekend in Sept, so they see them enough without a stressful journey up there.

I live near Watford, so I'd need to go into London first to then catch another train out to Montrose. When the kids are older, I probably will take the train though.

I want to go up there no more than twice a year as the DCs get bigger, my life will move on, I will meet someone else, I will return to work and only get 20 days hols. I'm not going to use it all up just to see ex PIL who chose to move 9 hrs away as my life moves on. But they are always welcome to come here.

I think if it was MY choice on when I feel ready to go on my own with 2 toddlers and I didn't feel constantly pressured that would be different.

There are plenty of beautiful places in the UK that aren't a hellish trip that takes hours with 2 young kids. I have been to Montrose before children, so I know what it's like. I just do not want to be pressured anymore about it, when I've stated my reasons for wanting to wait until the DCs are older and easier.

My DS has woken up with a swollen eye/ possible eye infection coming and isn't very happy, so I don't know how much I'll be able to come on mumsnet today. So I may not be back again for quite a while.

2Rebecca can I refer you to my post at 20:41 last night please? Thanks.

I'm also not bitter and he sees the children lots.

THere's more to thia than just the journey though isn't there.
It's the expectation that you will spend a week playing happy families with their son who has left you for a 21 yr old.
Not much regard for you or the DCs there really. It sounds rather a lot about them.

Yes Katisha. I have already told H to make it clear that this year I'm remaining at home for Christmas. In fact I think H will be here for the day with me and DCs, come early and go home late. I think he will be going up for New Year to his parents with the OW, so he should be making that clear to them.

Actually my soon to be ex H doesn't own a car right now, so he'd never be able to drive them up, unless he bought another car but that's beside the point.

However I sincerely hope as the DCs get older and hopefully my H through counseling and his tablets becomes more stable, that he will be able to take them up to his parents without me but he hasn't coped since they were both born anyway and with the self harming, suicidal impulses and depression, there is no way he'd agree or I'd let him take the DCs on such a long journey alone. He would loose it and wouldn't cope. That's not fair on the DCs. So the PIL will have to wait for me to go and stay for a week when the DCs are easier to manage on a long journey. I want them to have a good relationship with the PIL, my DD is very fond of her Grandpa, I would just like them to understand that that sort of journey right now would be very stressful for me.

Right I must go and clean up the kitchen from breakfast things, pick up toys and play with my DCs and hopefully my DS will perk up later he's very unhappy.

tea - they are definelty the ones being unreasonable

YA definitely NBU. I think being adult with your ex is one thing- and you seem to be doing that with a lot of dignity. But going on holiday with him because it suits your PIL, that is being a doormat. Don't even consider it. They can come to you.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you meet a fabulous new man when the time is right. Then you can deposit the kids leave the DC to spend quality time with PIL while you take wonderful breaks across Scotland with a Brad Pitt look alike.

I don't buy this "they must be anxious" view. They have an option of coming to see the DGCs whenever it's convenient for them. If they don't think Tea's house is up to scratch they can stay in a hotel and see the family every day. It's not necessary to cart the LOs to them for the maintenance of their relationship.

My theory is that these people are quite successful in life - high powered jobs, well-off, more than one house to choose from etc - and they didn't get there by playing doormats. They are used to getting what they want and not taking "no" for an answer. They push and push because it's how they got on in life, how they continue to get what they want. It's probably too late for them to learn a different way of doing things, as this one has worked for them over many years. It's just not in their interests to see Tea's point of view.

This doesn't make them bad people, of itself. It just means they have this express train technique which you have to use other techniques to counter. The "broken record" method suggested by some posters is a good one. I could suggest reading up on assertiveness, for example I found this one helpful.

Of course the story about how two of them took one baby across Europe with nary a whimper is irrelevant, even if true (and you've only got their word for it and the assumption that their memories are accurate). I took DS4 to New York once. He was a very placid 4-year-old and had my attention one-to-one. We managed to have a pretty enjoyable trip. No way I would have taken even him when he was of nappy-changing age, and no way I'd have taken two under-5s on a plane!

"Grown up" in their lexicon, of course, means "doing what they tell you". Fortunately as you are grown up, you don't have to.

DH and I frequently drive 7-8 hours to Scotland with two children (slightly older than yours) and it is bloody stressful with TWO of us. YANBU in the slightest. They are being selfish and not even considering how hard it would be for you.

YADNBU.

Dh & I struggle to go to IL's (4.5hrs away if you don't stop) because dd1 needs toilet breaks, dd needs milk feeds, whenever you set off there's either lunch/tea stop or hitting rush hour traffic on the M25 (with no services between where we join and where we get off). Luckily for us I think FIL 'gets' it. MIL lives in cuckoo land though.

Anyway, I can understand that your IL's feelings but I think you should put your foot down about it. Would you maybe consider letting the IL's pick your kids up and taking your kids for a week's holiday? i.e. say "Look, I'm really not up for this atm, stress of divorce, long journey on my own, etc, etc BUT if you want to you can come pick the kids up and take them back with you for a holiday"...after all they travelled with dh and he slept the whole way

Lord no, craftynclothy, suppose they accept?! No way I'd let a 3-year-old and 19-month-old out of my sight for a week, even if it wasn't with a granny who pokes a sleeping child awake because she doesn't believe in naps . When they're about 12 and 10 it would be brilliant.

YANBU Not read all the replies but you and the children are going through a period of almost bereavement, as you adjust to the massive changes in your life.
You sound as though you are being really brave, not even having a go at the OW here!

PIL are also probably scared, deep down, and sad that the family is breaking up.

But you must be strong, friendly and firm and politely refuse their lovely offer (which of course, you will take up once DCs are older and more able to cope with journey). If MIl is well-travelled, she should be much more able to cope with coming to you (and I would get xmas in here now - given snow more likely in scotland, can you offer to host xmas this year, then PIL could also get to see their son at his house).

What about video messaging online, so they can talk to your older one and see the younger one.

If this were me, i would be honest and say you feel pulled in all directions and you are so glad you can be honest with them because they are so supportive of you and DCs. Mention their potential fears and be clear that you want DC to have a good relationship with them.

This has probably been all said before but from your OP, you ANBU and take confidence in your judgement.

Good luck in this difficult time.

If they're anything like my PIL, you may have to accept that they will never 'get it', but if you are consistent enough in your refusal they may finally accept that you are not going to change your mind.

How they judge you for that can't be your problem.

Hope your DS feels better soon.

Please don't for one moment think you are being unreasonable. A 9hr drive with 2 little ones would be an absolute nightmare! My sister has similar prob and struggles with a 4hr journey - kids being sick, getting bored (even though she has dvd player and other distractions), needing the toilet, etc. Please don't let them bully you into a visit - a nine hour drive is hard when you are on your own, let alone with the kids. Stick to your guns - believe me I know what it's like to have PIL that just keep ignoring your concerns and pushing their own agenda.

YADNBU, and tbh it sounds as though you have the patience of a saint. The suggestion that I take ex-DH with me and "be an adult" would have been the death knell of civilised relations with PIL.

I think they probably are scared of losing contact with you and the GC and that's why they dont want to wait until they're older. However, I think all you can do is reiterate that it's completely impractical and that they are welcome to come and visit any time they like.

Glad you've sorted Christmas is going to be at home, OP.

Thanks for the comment Anniegetyourgun regarding PIL and their 'express train' and how they got where they are. Yes, probably true that they expect, by hounding, to just "get their way", and need to learn it isn't always that simple!

To add to the others, you are very definitely not being unreasonable. We have to travel a lot with 2 small children to visit family, there is no way I'd attempt even a 5 hour drive without adult help, and mine are now past the stage of needing travel cots etc. It sounds as though you have been incredibly patient and tolerant, and done your best to maintain good relations.

It sounds as though your in-laws have a long-held dream of getting all the family together at their big family home- the fact that their son has knocked that on the head by going off with another woman is something they are refusing to acknowledge. And while it should really be your ex-husband's responsibility to take the children to see his parents, I totally understand why you're wary of that. And, tbh, it sounds as though you have concerns about his health and well-being that would make him somebody else to look after if he did accompany you on a visit .

Perhaps one way to address the issue could be to write a thank-you card? Thank them for their support while you are going through such a fraught and upsetting time, explain that the children love them very much and that you all very much appreciate the visits that the ILs make to see you. Then explain that you are so glad they understand how difficult it is for you at the moment, and how the journey up to them is just unmanageable.

If they are that desperate for you to travel, perhaps your FIL could travel down to you by train, then share the driving up with you, and then do the same in reverse for the return journey? Would probabaly be manageable then if you started driving at say 3am so the children would sleep for half the journey, and had things like DVD players/ children's music in the car.