to want my PIL to stop pressuring me about visiting them 9 hrs away alone with 2 toddlers?

[teaandcakeplease]

This is going to be quite a long one but I really have to get this off my chest and I need some sympathy, truth be told and if you have any ideas on how I can deal with this that I haven?t tried already, that would be great.

Bit of background; my H and I are in the process of a divorce as he has chosen to forsake me and the 2 DCs for the OW. I did want to work things out, however he couldn?t and didn?t want to end the relationship. The divorce begun in April, it?s fairly amicable, no arguments as yet over anything and the decree nisi application was submitted to court on 17 July. H comes and sees the DCs twice a week, sometimes 3 times and is great with them, plays with them etc. I do have a thread on here about the sorry saga from a while ago, so some of you may recognise me.

My PIL have owned a large house in Montrose for many years, MIL bought it just after I started dating her son and they have recently chosen to sell their house down here near me and relocate to Scotland. They wanted to save more for retirement and it made sense to sell one of their properties. Truthfully it is difficult to imagine her retiring and she has said that she has no intention to for at least another 10 years, she works in Switzerland and comes over to the UK once a month for a weekend, sometimes stays longer. So my FIL actually lives without her most of the time. But they needed to sell a property to save for retirement and have done that.

The property in Montrose was being let out as a holiday home previously but they weren?t earning as much as needed to cover all the overheads as I understand it. So they decided now was a good time to sell up and relocate. MIL grew up in Montrose and wants to retire up there. Ever since I?ve known her I?ve always understood they would retire up there, it?s naturally their decision of course and I?m fine with that. What I am not fine with however is the fact that ever since my FIL moved up there every time he rings me to see how the GCs are, he always asks without fail ?when am I going up there to stay for 7 days?? MIL also whenever she sees me asks me the same. I feel almost bullied and pressured to go and stay for 7 days, every time they see me, as no matter how I try to explain things, I cannot get them to see my point of view. I want my DCs to have a good relationship with them and have said that if they can just wait a while longer, they?ll both be older and easier to manage in a car on longer journeys but right now as they?re both so young it is a lot to ask and it would be far easier for them to pack a small bag and come down to me instead and are welcome anytime.

I?m a lone parent now, with a 3 year old DD (just turned 3, I might add) and a 19 month old DS, their son has left me for a 21 year old, Montrose is 9 hours drive from me, if the traffic was good and I didn?t stop at all on the way up there and they expect me to pack up 2 toddlers, travel cots, ready bed, bedding, toys (as they have none up there), buggy and all the associated paraphernalia you have for 2 toddlers and drive on my own up there. My friends are lovely but all work full time or have families of their own and wouldn?t be able to come with me to help. My parents are elderly and aren?t able to offer to keep me company on the long journey either. When I try and tell them how stressful it would be to do it with 2 toddlers on my own. They then tell me that my H can come up with me. We?re in the middle of a divorce, yes we?re managing to keep it amicable but they do not seem to understand that it?s not appropriate for him to come and stay with me and the DCs for a week in Scotland. Not that the other woman?s feelings truly concern me but I?m pretty sure she wouldn?t be too impressed either, if H went away with his soon to be ex wife for a whole week. I sometimes think H?s parents haven?t quite grasped the fact we?re divorcing. MIL insists we just need to be grown ups about this and come up together to see them regularly. My DD has only just gotten used to the fact that daddy doesn?t live with us anymore and it would be very hard for her if he came with us for a week and then at the end, left us again. She?s so young and she still doesn?t truly understand why he no longer lives with us. I don?t want to confuse her or upset her and I know it would. She spent months crying and whimpering ?daddy gone, daddy lost? the last thing I want to do is confuse her again.

The thought of trying to drive at night with them instead, has crossed my mind but it would be too dangerous and I?d fall asleep at the wheel. I suppose I could arrange to stay in a B&B on the way up at a half way point and then finish the drive the following day? But it?s too much to ask of a daughter in law with 2 toddlers on her own I think and unfair. My DS gets fed up in his car seat after a while and I have to pass toys back to him regularly. I?ve tried story CDs, Kids music, great for DD, DS doesn't help I can time naps for the car journey I suppose as that?d help but he?d only sleep 90 mins in the day max in the car. So the rest of the time would require toys being passed back etc. My DD has only just been potty trained as well and I need to take her to the loo often to avoid accidents. I suppose I could put her in pull ups for the day? However it all comes back to the fact it?s an awful lot to ask of a DIL when they chose to move 9 hrs away, their choice and their son has left me to cope on my own. I keep saying it?ll be easier once they?re bigger and it won?t be long, I?m sure by next Summer it won?t be so bad to do it but they do not seem to take my point of view on board at all.

FIL called last night on the phone yet again and asked and dismissed all my concerns again, I felt so fed up as this has been going on since last October (he only finally moved 6 weeks ago and has already seen the GCs twice since then down here) I am always polite about it and keep trying to tell them how much easier it would be if they could just see me down here for now but they just do not let it lie. It all seems so unreasonable to constantly pressure me to go up there. MIL is often in the UK on business and it?s always in London so she is able to see the GCs lots anyway. FIL often comes down here too. I cannot see why they cannot take my pov on board. As my door is always open to them but I just want to wait until the DCs are slightly older to go up to Montrose on my own with them. As it is it would be a tough week and not relaxing with them and I know that. Life?s so hard with 2 toddlers, a divorce going through and money worries without this constant pressure from my PIL to go and stay in their lovely house. I?m sure the DCs would enjoy it of course but I just wish they?d listen to me and wait until next year. They chose to move 9 hours away from both their sons and their grandchildren and now I feel like they expect me to up sticks whenever they ask to go up there, when this wasn?t my choice or decision. I am also 100% certain that if I do the journey once they?ll then assume it?s no bother and expect me to go up there everytime MIL takes time off work, so I feel like I?m stuck between a rock and a hard place right now as I do not think I can win either way really, as they do not appreciate what they?re asking of me and what about if I ever meet a new man and he wants to do things with me and the DCs? What about when I return to work and only get 20 days holiday a year? What about the financial costs, the petrol is a lot too? If I could just agree to go up twice a year that would be ok I guess, if they came to me the rest of the time but I cannot see things being that straight forward, having known them now for 9 years

So what would you do in my situation as I was nearly close to tears last night when FIL yet again put me under pressure to go up there, as I?m about fit to burst with frustration now. Life is so hard right now, coming to terms with my marriage being over and being a lone parent with 2 toddlers Are my requests unreasonable?

Do your children know who these grandparents are, are they significant in their lives. Doesn't sound like they could be. If the GPs want to visit the kids they can come and see them and stay with your ex or in a hotel, you will never stop them seeing them. You will allow your ex to take them for one week a year without you so you can have a break. You don't want to see them I presume. Then just repeat it as mantra or send or letter or stop answering their phone. Do not say we can come if x,y,z - keep it simple.

YADNBU! My DC are similar ages, and my (childless) DB cannot understand why I do not want to drive 3 hours across country with them strapped in the back of the car wailing.
The 3yo isn't so bad, as they can begin to amuse themselves with books, drawing/ colouring etc but the 18mo? He hates being strapped in for a 10 minute run, let alone longer. They want to be off, running around.
I couldn't even contemplate 9 hours- your PIL are mad!

It seems possible to me that they are quite anxious. Their grandchildren are now in the full time care of someone not related to them at all (if you see what I mean) and many, many grandparents lose touch with grandchildren. Added to which they are moving so far away - yes, their choice but it's still a long way and of course the dynamic is that bit different when you have day to day 'control' of the children's whereabouts and their son is only a part time parent.

I'd be inclined to write to them as some others have suggested, to re-assure them that you want your children to continue to have an important relationship with them, etc etc etc but this journey is not for you at this stage - re-iterate there is no hidden agenda here but simply the logistics of it. Personally, I would also not be able to resist saying "No matter how amicable and how adult I can be with your son about the divorce, I really don't think it would be kind, fair or in any way reasonable to expect me to travel and spend a week with the man who has left me and his children for a 21 year old" Blimey - some things need saying!!!

Aww tea :( dont let them stress you out .

YANBU PIL are asking too much of you . Cant imagine any toddlers to sit still in their car seats for a 9 hour journey.

I think, like everyone else, that yanbu, but I would like to play devil's advocate. As sleepingsowell has said, the gp may have anxieties that they will lose contact with their gc. They might not be approaching it in the right way, but this may be a motivating factor. Also, they may be wanting to try and make things a bit better for you after their ds has behaved so badly.

Also, although travel with 2 little ones is not especially fun, it's not impossible, and you don't really seem to have investigated other ways of getting to Montrose if you are not happy to drive it. And when the plane idea was suggested, you were unequivocal that it would be impossible.

I am clearly in a minority here, but you sound like you really don't want to go, whatever. Maybe a part of you is trying to punish them partly for moving away when you could have done with their help, and partly because their son is so crap to you. Pop psychology I know, and possibly way off the mark, but thought I would try to give another side to the issue.

YANBU at all, it would be a marathon for a couple of parents who are still together to do, never mind a newly single parent with two, small and reluctant travellers.

Someone else suggested you do a parcel of pictures, photos etc. from the children to the GPs, this could include a letter from your children saying, "Dear GPs, we hope you like the pictures we've drawn for you. When are you coming to stay with us again? Mummy and Daddy say that when DD is 5 or 6 and DS is a big boy we will all be able to come up to see your big new house. We are looking forward to being grown-up enough to come such a long way in the car with Mummy or Daddy. Please come and stay with us soon. Love from DD and DS".

You could then add a PS stating once again that you will not be bringing them with exH and that it is not a journey you will be undertaking solo until the children are school-aged (by which time that will be an additional excuse if you need it) and that you hope they understand.

Oh Tea, YANBU at all. I would not even consider it with one, let alone two toddlers. I think it is thoughtless and selfish of them to keep pressuring you about it. And rather insensitive to suggest that you come with DH, tbh, it just sounds silly to me - like they are in denial about what their DS has done to you and your family.

Love the letter by SE13Mummy. They need it made clear that it is years away before you'll be making that trip on your own. (I am stressed just thinking about it, lol!).

I would be straight with them though, that you are not doing it, it is not open for consideration, they are welcome to come and see you and that you'll bring the children when they're older.

Personally I'd probably add that they've had enough upheaval in their lives of late, but that's just me...

Don't let 'em get to you Tea, they're being quite inconsiderate. It's just because you're such a nice person that it's getting to you...

No not trying to punish them. I stayed with FIL for 4 weeks when we first separated and he was fantastic and DD LOVES him very much. He's seen them twice in the last 6 weeks when down this way and I made myself entirely at his disposal during that time. In fact MIL is in the Country and FIL down here on 11th Sept, so I've already agreed they can spend the day with them, no problem at all.

I thought the reasons I outlined about the airport/ plane were perfectly understandable as my son is at such a tricky stage.

Thank you Nancy for your post, it's good to know my son isn't the only one who dislikes his car seat at this age

YANBU in thinking that your PIL are being rude, insensitive and, to be frank, annoyingly childish.

However, as a lone parent (or any parent come to that) there are going to be situations where you have to stick up for what you believe is right for your children. As has been suggested, that can be done in a polite non-confrontational way, but it needs to be done. Stand up to your PIL, tell them you will let them know when you feel your DC are ready for the journey they are suggesting, and that you do not want to discuss it any further. They are welcome to come to you.

Basically, use your PIL as practice for all the teachers/football coaches/friends parents who you may have to stand up to in the future.

Resist the temptation to point out that you do not want to mirror their parenting style as you have seen the results

I have had similar experiences with GPs living in Scotland, DH and I did the journey one xmas with DC.

And we NEVER did it again! It was a nightmare, and totally unfair on both DC and us.

I stuck to my guns, despite the pressure, and just simply said that it was too far, but they were very welcome to visit us at any time.

I think some people generally have really unfair expectations about travelling with children.

Some children and parents CAN handle hours upon hours travelling-and they enjoy it. Others, like myself, can think of nothing worse!!

I would phone them and tell them you do not want to go. Its too far. But they are welcome to visit you.
I would prepare myself, maybe write down a few phrases, and just keep repeating "We will find it too far to travel" if they keep trying to persuade you.

YANBU!!! so good luck

I would prepare myself, maybe write down a few phrases, and just keep repeating "We will find it too far to travel" if they keep trying to persuade you

You're right quick in fact some brilliant phrases on here. Thank the Lord for mumsnet, helping me out again.

Must go to bed, as both will be up early I suspect

Glad I put a smile on your face

YANBU - I would adopt the broken record approach outlined above. How about setting up skype so GPs can "see" DCs more often?

YANBU at all ... to be honest I think you are remarkably considerate in the circs .. and very measured in your responses to their demands ... please do not attempt to do this journey with kids so young , stress for you and them . good luck .you sound like you are doing a great job with your dcs

YANBU I don't visit my ILs who live 5 hrs away as it is too far and they come up here several times a year anyway so not as if we never see them. DS has reflux and is very travel sick.

Have to second Kewcumber's suggestion - be blunt - be firm - be willing if necessary to use Caller Display and ignore the phone if they don't take the hint that repeatedly trying to pressure you will simply boost your resolve not to give in (even though it's clear you are near breaking point because they're so very selfish and short-sighted at the moment).

Can see the point about GPs being concerned, but they're really not appreciative of your situation - sleepingsowell summed up the sort of explanation they need to really make clear why you and H will not be travelling together.

GPs need to understand you're not theirs to control or dictate to, and however much you get on with them, you have your own life and DCs to consider first and foremost.

You need time to come to terms with change in circumstances, and I found a few posts quite odd to be putting up reasons and methods by which you could visit. You're also looking at how things will change when returning to work, and the 'what if' (or rather, 'when') you have a new man in your life.

H sounds too risky to be allowed to take DC with him (and fortunate he sees the distance as a problem, before considering if he could ever cope with 2 DC).

My PIL suggested that I put DS (7 with ASD) on a plane to the place where they live (7 hour flight away) .

They now claim they were only joking but they were on Skype and I saw their faces and they were not.

OP there is no way you could do this and I think they are being somewhat bullying by keeping on trying to force the issue. You don't need to fall out with them but I would just be very clear and say "I am not going to do this while the kids are so young but you know you are ALWAYS welcome here". If the keep pushing I would say "I have already told you my reasons, now lets talk about something else". I have actually said this before to my PIL and it was followed up with "Look I am not discussing this anymore, talk to you soon, Byeeeeeee" and put the phone down. Hopefully it won't come to that though.

I feel for you tea. DH struggled driving 9 hours even with a break, 4 dvds for 7 year old and my witty company! i would drive at night if i had to but no way would i contemplate such a long journey alone. Stick to your guns. You had me at the daddy lost, daddy gone...they can visit you. End of.

I think you could add another comment - they could come down South, take your kids away for one night to start with, then two and so on

so eventualy both could be spending lengthy holidays in Scotland with their GP

so by the time tour kids are ready to travel that far you can take them there and maybe stay just weekend and get back home for a week or so :)

hmm, they don't seem to be getting the idea that you & their son are divorcing. do they know about the OW?

perhaps he & ow could fly/drive up with the kids, let his parents get to know her & spend time as the 'new' family unit. (sorry if that's painful to hear, but he IS the dad and he has another adult to help him out)

i think you maybe just need to say 'your son has deserted me and i am finding this extremely painful. please contact him regarding any future arrangements for your family concerns'

yanbu

and it sounds like they have loads of contact anyway, so don't need you to go there as the only way to see the lo.

i think they need to be prepared to help a little - provide somewhere for lo to sleep, one of them go up with you or something.

Maybe they should be grown up about it all and learn what the word "no" means.

I don't care how anxious they are about losing contact with their GCs, it is bordering on cruel to expect two small children to make a journey like that solely for their benefit. Their complete lack of concern for your wellbeing is shocking.

They sound toxic. Leave it up to their philandering son to deal with them.

YADNBU tea! Maybe instead of pressuring you to make a trip only a madwoman would contemplate, they should have been pressuring their DS to follow through on his wedding vows.

You are already being remarkably "adult" about it, and I'm offended on your behalf that they would say that to you. It is no longer your job to take DC to see them, that is now on your soon-to-be-ex DH. (Though I understand your reasons for not wanting him to do so.) FFS, DH and I just have the one three year old DS and driving him 5 hours to see my parents is...well, let's just say that I will definitely have something to point to when I am instituionalized for being absolutely barking in a few years. :o

How about next time you say, "Oh, that'd be lovely. Unfortunately I am now a single parent due to your son's inability to keep it in his pants and I'll need some help. I've got a friend in Minnesota who'd be more than happy to join me on a holiday to Scotland and give me a hand with the DC's." Then give 'em my address so they can send the plane ticket! Done and done, if you ask me. :)

YABBU at all.
Just keep repeating, "You're always welcome here to see the dc, however, until they are older and cope better with long journeys, travelling to Scotland is not possible."

DH, myself and our two kids 5 and 3 drive to the Uk often (we live in europe)... takes about 8 hours. IT is extremely tiring and I am really not sure I would do it on my own. NO let me rephrase that, I am SURE I would not do it on my own.

I think it is very nice that you want your DC to have a relationship with the PIL, after all it is not their fault that their son is an idiot!!!! falling for a 21 year old that will leave him in a few years. what a bastard,...

so here is my suggestion, tell them that you would really find it extremely hard to drive on your own with the two children, so why don't you all fly to switzerland to visit your mum in law in a nice city like lugano or similar... all expenses paid. Paid by your ex.

Teaandcake, of course you are not being unreasonable. In fact you sound eminently reasonable, thoughtful and kind.

I agree with the advice to write PIL a letter. This would help them to digest all the information you've outlined here. Much better than phone conversations for helping them to reflect on your reasoned arguments - and on your reassurance that you really do want them in your DC's lives.

I'm also wondering if there is a SIL/BIL/other relation or family friend who you get on with and who could back you up on this by explaining your concerns to PIL?

Best of luck.