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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be very mad at finding my dd crying at nursery...

120 replies

EvieBear · 10/08/2010 20:38

... while the team leader sat about two metres from her, cross-legged, just staring back at her?

I am so mad. I went to collect 13months DD today at nursery, and walked in to find a peaceful room apart from my dd who was sobbing her heart out kneeling in the room. She was facing the team leader of the room, who was sitting about 2 metres from her, cross-legged, staring back at my dd. I couldn't believe it!!! She was the only staff member in the room of maybe 6 children which is strange too. All other children were happily playing, it wasn't like she was torn between a few disasters happening at once, so WHY didn't she try to soothe my very upset child? I'm disgusted someone in childcare could just sit there staring at her crying. I've had issues with this woman before, she's is defintiely not the warmest.
She proceeded to tell me my daughter had been upset for a good while, and when I got her home I noticed a nice black bruise under her chin.

Please tell me how your nurseries deal with this kind of thing. Am I from another planet because I feel that this was totally cruel? I don't know how to go about it.

OP posts:

MammaK · 11/08/2010 21:46

Eviebear - Took me so long to type my response that I missed your update - that is outrageous and highlights even more the lack of those three key points I mentioned earlier!

Rhian82 · 11/08/2010 21:53

Why in the world are they not encouraged to pick children up? And not children - babies. That's ridiculous, picking up and cuddling is exactly what infants need.

Original poster

EvieBear · 11/08/2010 21:57

I don't know why they aren't encouraged to pick them up, this is just what the manager said to me.

Also I remember making friendly chat with the staff in dd's room when she first started and saying to them that they must have to be careful how they lift the babies in order to avoid back pain; one NN just said oh no, we don't lift them. I just thought this was normal when I heard that.

So it's not? OK........... Time for action!

OP posts:

pissedrightoff · 11/08/2010 22:02

My DD is around the same age as yous OP, I'd be horrified at her being left to cry like that, Maybe a childminder would be the answer? More personal attention for your DD.

What did the manager say when you told her that DD was'nt even in nursery?Do you think she had you mixed up with someone else or was just trying to fob you off?

Kaloki · 11/08/2010 22:02

My mum stopped working for a local playgroup years back when she was told to not pick upset children up for a cuddle, as it could be seen as unwanted and possibly abusive :(

Kaloki · 11/08/2010 22:03

Should add: her boss wasn't the greatest from what I remember

SloanyPony · 11/08/2010 22:10

"My god, my poor DD. She hasn't even been there that long"

GOOD.

Get her out of there.

The fact the manager said "happy and playing nicely" today is the absolute last straw. she either doesn't know who she is, or doesn't care.

Get her out of there.

grapeandlemon · 11/08/2010 22:17

Get her out! What are you waiting for? Gosh I feel so sorry for the poor babies there not having any real physical contact. I am shocked and horrified by what you describe.

StarExpat · 11/08/2010 22:19

Op I know IABU for even wanting a name and shame but could you give us your approximate geographical region? I use a cm currently (would highly recommend it!! Ds gets loads of cuddles and is adored by her and every tiny scratch is accounted for) but if I ever had to switch to a nursery, would want to be sure not to go to this one. As I'm sure others wouldn't, either.

Original poster

EvieBear · 11/08/2010 22:30

I'm in London. That's all I am saying.

I will get her out for sure, but I do have a job and it's hard to get a nursery place at the drop of a hat- she is on a waiting list for another nursery with a great reputation so I am waiting at the moment. Really hope a place becomes available soon.

The sad thing is my dd has never had a bruise on her face, only her legs from falling over, and so I am sure this would have shocked her and upset her very much. Not being sure she got cuddles and was comforted is so hard to think about and SO WRONG.

OP posts:

StarExpat · 11/08/2010 22:37

:( so sorry to hear that, Evie. At least you caught this in early days. And hopefully with your voice about all of this it might cause them to change, too!

for asking about location. But thank you. I'm Surrey so relieved it's not near us.

nasdaq · 11/08/2010 22:44

Eviebear - I am sorry to hear of your experience.

My baby has had falls in nursery - but they have been explained. When I go in there is usually someone cuddling or playing or nearby.

What a worry for you.

When my baby has cried a few times upon leaving, they have told me - and if there are teething problems they tell me and advice what they have done in terms of calming.

All I can say is that I have complete trust in the nursery staff, I remember when I questioned whether they give cuddles to babies and they looked at me as if I was weird and a bit funny and laughed and said ofcourse we give cuddles, babies need loads of cuddles.

MadameBelle · 11/08/2010 22:48

evieBear I have worked in maybe 20 nurseries over the Years (did supply nursery nursing for a couple of years while we moved around the country with dh's work) and although I have worked in some pretty ghastly places, I have never ever come across a nursery where the staff do not pick up babies. It is a fundamental part of caring for a small child. Crikey, I'm shocked.

It sounds like there is a culture there that is permitting and almost encouraging this kind of behaviour.

The ratio business is also a bit odd, because even if one staff member was out of the room changing a nappy (which is ok from time to time but not ideal if you are frequently one person down) that would mean that one member of staff was left with 6 children, so 7 children under the care of two adults (when the other staff member got back into the room with the nappy changed baby). Obviously this still makes the ratio greater than the 1:3 maximum for babies of that age.

I would kick up a massive, noisy fuss. And then move my child asap.

bumpsnowjustplump · 11/08/2010 22:51

EB so sorry but i wouldn't be sending her back there. is there anyway you can organise family/friends to cover until you can get another nursery or CM...

Wholelottalove · 11/08/2010 23:03

Haven't read all responses to your update, but just to say I dropped DD off at nursery this morning (she's 2 and been there since 7 months) and because her usual key worker was off sick, the other worker made a point of picking her up, giving her a cuddle and carrying her to the window to wave to me. And DD is about 30lbs.

And the nursery manager and all the staff know who my DD is and call her by name. (Admittedly she has been there for a lot longer than your DD). It is not right for staff not to give children cuddles, let them sit on their laps for stories etc. At about 10months my DD was still being rocked to sleep in arms in the baby room before going for nap. She would always come home smelling of perfume.

DD runs around the nursery staff giving them big kisses and cuddles (unprompted) most evenings when we leave.

I wouldn't expect anything less than plenty of cuddles/being picked up for a 13month old regardless of whether they were upset or not, but always when they were upset.

Shaxx · 11/08/2010 23:28

Your poor dd.
I would be so angry. I definitely think you should take her out.
I chose a nursery further away because when I went to visit it I saw a nursery worker struggling with 2 babies who needed attention at the same time, the manager could hear them crying so came rushing up, picked up one of the babies, gave her a big kiss and cuddle and took her out of the room for a bit.
A couple of the staff had children on their laps and you could tell it was a very warm environment.
I think the behaviour you described is disgusting. What a cold hearted woman.

dribbleface · 12/08/2010 10:31

Eviebear - i know you have decided to move her, but please make a formal complaint anyway - 'not encouraged to lift them up' . I am a nursry manager and cannot get my head around this at all, how odd.

The nursery your on the waiting list for, do give them a call, explain your dilema (not naming current nursery, but they will know who it is i'm sure). I'm sure any good nursery will do their best to help you out. I have done in the past for a family in this situation, might mean doing different days or an odd combination of days (if work would allow this).

Not all nurseries are like this i promise, but its important that the ones that are get reported for it.

griffaloschild · 12/08/2010 11:26

I've just taken my 15 month DS out of nursery and to a CM instead. It is the best thing I have ever done (encouraged by posters on here).

Things like you describe happened at his nursery amongst other things...

I tried to perserve for quite a while thinking I was being over sensitive and expected too much, but I wish we'd moved him sooner. I found a lovely caring lady, who is happy to chat for hours about DS care.

I think communication is paramount - if you can't develop a nice relationship with your DDs carers I would move on to a better nursery or CM.

Good luck - I know how heartbreaking all this can be - I feel your pain x

buzzin · 12/08/2010 11:26

I would mention it to another member of staff & then look into putting her in another nursery. They may have had issues with this member of staff before so you must mention it or otherwise she'll carry on in the same manner. I've never witnessed this behaviour in any of the nurseries i've used. It sounds like she's in the wrong job.

lucasnorth · 12/08/2010 11:39

If you can afford it, why don't you and DP take turns taking parental leave to tide you over until you settle DD with another carer?

griffaloschild · 12/08/2010 11:58

I think this sort of thing is a lot more common than we'd like to think. Had a conversation with an aquaintance recently, who works in the management side of childcare (visits lots of nurseries etc) and has lots of friends who work at nurseries. She says 'eye-rolling' and general annoyance at having to pick up/comfort clingy/crying babies (even at the nurseries with the best reputations and ofsted reports) is commonplace.

Find Dribbleface's nursery - sounds like a gem!

cestlavie · 12/08/2010 12:07

Gosh, I'm shocked - both by the incident itself and the response of the manager. That's just appalling.

That is just absolute bollocks about not picking up babies or children who are not crying. At DDs' nursery it is absolutely the norm to find staff cuddling little ones and not infrequently cuddling a couple at the same time. I have never seen staff not engaged with the children, be it changing nappies, playing with them etc. Even when they're walking around they often have a little one in their arms. The nursery's entire approach sounds wrong.

Also, in terms of the accident, we have accident report forms at nursery. Any injury (no matter how slight) gets noted down, including timing, nature, response of child and action taken which is then counter-signed by the key worker, manager and parent. It may be worth asking what their policy is in this regard?

Anyways, guess you probably know all of this already. It does kind of feel it's not the ideal place to be leaving your little one. In terms of your second choice, maybe see what days they have available and how flexible they and you can be given your current situation.

At ours, they may not always have availability for all/ the exact days you need but they may be able to get something very close much sooner... If you want any recommendations in East London by the way, just let me know!

mumofthreesweeties · 12/08/2010 12:09

Sorry your DD had to go through that. I would have been both upset and livid too about such treatment. Unfortunately some nurseries are just terrible and you only see this once your DC is there. My DS who is now 5 once went to such a nursery and one day he told me that one of the girls in there had smacked him. Now this wasnt very clear to me at that time when he said it as he had speech delay and I couldnt clearly understand it. It only became clear to me when she smacked another older child who was four (my son was 2 at that time). I caused such a commotion with the other mum, OFSTED, police, Social Services etc and immediately withdrew my son from the nursery. THere had been so many small incidents before that that had been making me have cause for concern. The staff were also not the warmest e.g. no cheery hello in the morning etc

I would have loved for the nursery to have been shut down but unfortunately it was our children's words against theirs and the staff had been threatened with losing their jobs if any of them said what they had witnessed.

The girl was suspended and was under police investigation but I doubt anything happened after that as my son was out and noone ever got in touch with me after that. I felt I had failed my son for such a long time after this incident but we cant be to blame. The nurseries paint a rosy picture when parents come to inspect with smiling staff; and with this nursery OFSTED had rated them as good only six months prior to my son joining so I felt I had done all the essential checks.

Please make sure you establish how she got the bruise, why you were not given an accident sheet to sign etc etc - and then take your DD out of there

mumofthreesweeties · 12/08/2010 12:14

Appalling update Evie, what is this manager on? Is this nursery in SE17 by any chance Evie

tryingtoleave · 12/08/2010 12:25

When I put my ds in childcare at 18 months I arrived early on the first day he was there alone to find him sitting in the corner, sobbing hysterically, while the staff ignored him. I was unable to raise it with the staff at the time as I was busy comforting him and it was all I could do not to burst into tears myself. It took me a couple of days before I was able to call the director and tell her what had happened that there was no way I was bringing my ds back. It's taken me years to feel comfortable with using childcare again but I've just put my dd in a centre where I do feel confident that they comfort her and pick her up when she cries. After all, that's all you really want at this age for your dcs.

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