to wonder why person in front on plane always puts their fucking seat back the minute we take off

[madmn52]

Im not talking long haul or night flights. Im talking day flights of a few hours duration. Theres precious enough leg room and the airlines cram us in like sardines - and I have 32ins legs meaning I practically get knee-capped by the seat in front as it is. But thats not bad enough - oh no - I get the only person on the plane - and I know this cos Ive looked round and checked !! who absolutely has to put their seat back the minute we take off. So now I've got cramp, I'm starting to lose all feeling in my legs - I cant reach down to get some light entertainment or pain relief !! out of my bag without cricking my neck - the inflight movie is pointing towards my pelvic area because of the angle of the seat in front and to cap it all Ive got some fucking complete ignorant arsehole strangers head in my lap for the entire flight.

3Trees - if there were no bassinets I'd have sympathy. I also wouldn't start screaming and shouting at you for having a baby on your lap but I would expect crew to come up with a solution and I would be annoyed if you acted it was something I should do rather than something I'd be doing to be nice. In reality I would just not recline if you asked nicely. Seat kicking would get a total refusal from me to recline (and a complaint to you and the crew) - I can be PA back too :)

I do think the example of a child on a lap is more extreme than long legs/being tall. We're also talking long-haul which was specifically exempted by the OP. 30 mins is very different to 10 hours.

3Trees I hope you have put in a letter of complaint. The airline should have moved you to a seat that was at least a bulk head. They could have moved you around so that you didn't have a pax in front of you... they had options.

The person sitting in front of you booked their seat to use as they found comfortable. How would you feel if you'd had the bassinet on the return trip but the person next to you found it annoying and would rather you didn't use it?

I have just flown 2 long haul flights with a day inbetween - I slept (or tried to!) for both of those flights. I put my seat upright for all meal times, even though I would rather have just 'slept' through them. I needed to be as rested as I could be when I got off both flights - I don't see why the pax behind me has a greater claim on comfort than I did?

Mousymouse - the only law I'm aware of is about take off and landing when you're not allowed your seat reclined anyway!

If you book a cheap airline then you have to put up with what you get in my opinion.

I only book "cheap" (cheap they are not) airlines because the take me to where I want to go. would prefer lufthansa or ba where I can book an extra seat for the baby. but they stopped flying from the closest airport to where I want to go. so easyjet it is (and I am glad that their seats on that flight don*t recline)

Ok - agreed. You're being reasonable to ask about whether I would mind not reclining in that situation. However, you would be unreasonable to not appreciate that I might be annoyed or to not be nice about it

OK, here's another one for those who don't (or won't) get it. My iPod allows me to play music through a loudspeaker. Does that 'entitle' me to play my music through the speaker wherever I like, without any regard to anyone else around me? Whether they want to listen to it or not? No, it's not illegal, and yes it's Apple's fault for making this function available - but just because something is there doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. Don't abdicate responsibility for your own actions onto the airline, or manufacturer, or whoever - your actions, your responsibility. Come to a compromise with others around you so that everyone can travel in some modicum of comfort.

(yes, you can drive fast on the autobahn - but your car can still go at 120 though a town - still OK to go that fast??)

Not at all. I wouldn't expect to have MORE right to comfort than any other passenger, but I also would not expect to have LESS. THUS, I would expect give and take.

In your instance, for example, perhaps you could have reclined to SLIGHTLY less than full recline? Although, tbh, for long haul, I personally would have been fine with just upright at meal times - ds is still small enough that he could probbaly still use the tray even with the person in front at full recline, thus he could still play his game, draw etc, or I could swap seats with him etc etc. We genuinely DO look for ways NOT to bother anyone else, but I just think that generally, some give and take is all it needs?

Luckily (or not given than ds is now 3.5 and has "issues") we won't have the child on lap problem again, and believe me, we put in a LOT of care and prep to make sure that our child, despite his issues, does not impact on the comfort and rights of other passengers, but I would like to think that other passengers would just go a SMALL way to realising that they too are sharing space.

People who put their seats back and then do not attempt to sleep are assholes.

BUT - YABU as it is their seat to adjust as they see fit. They paid for it.

TBH - dont try kicking, pushing the seat, or grumbling loudly to your fellow passengers about the situation, as there is a strange satisfaction from sensing the person behind is impotently fuming.

Better just to ask them to raise their seat.

If they say no - then the gloves are off and anything goes to make their journey as uncomfortable as possible. That includes taking shoes off and wafting smelly feet around under their seat, sticking empty airline wine bottles between the seat and magazines and slowly exerting more and more pressure on them, and silent farting.

Because Bedubabe - I do not make my long legs - though am starting to feel like a short arse with some of leg lengths on here ! - anyone elses problem. I simply stick with the status quo position of the seat. I am not doing anything pro-actively to give myself more leg room or - more to the point to add to the discomfort of any of my fellow sardines unlike passenger with back/pelvis problem is doing.

Also as the OP can I just clarify a few things - I have never condoned - kicking the seat in front - neither have I ever said I do it - I agree its not the way to go but I do understand peoples frustration and anger behind this activity.
Also I have said from the beginning that I always try the polite approach and give the person in front the opportunity to compromise when fairly armed with the knowledge they are causing me discomfort.
Also if this fails - then I DO make it the airlines problem - as many of you have stated we anti-recliners should do. I always politely ask the stewardess if anything can be done about my discomfort - firmly putting the ball in her court. I never demand she tell the person in front to sit up - unless its mealtime or whatever. If she decides to move me instead and resolve it that way fine - she can leave person in front in comfortable recline - but she equally has a duty of care to me !

But as many of you confirm the hostesses often wont help - though it seems they have shifted their policy of non-involvement and will ASK -but only ask - the person in front to show consideration. And yes I DO agree that assertiveness - firstly to the recliner and then the stewardess - is always better and usually more effective than aggression or making it personal against a fellow passenger.

Like FranSan I think it's imperative to politely ask the person in front of you to raise their seat. It's like when people squeeze past you in a shop instead of saying "excuse me". Such bad manners.

No suitwoshoes - because it's not legal or safe! Please can we leave the car analogy - it just doesn't fit.

3threes - I think I'm taking an extreme view because people are acting as if reclining your seat on a flight would only be done by satan. :o In reality, yes you of course would be considerate if there was a small child involved!

Playing music through the speaker on an iphone does not give me any extra comfort but bothers those around me. In a park, don't think it's unreasonable. On a plane/train - yes there's a convention of keeping reasonably quiet so I wouldn't do it. However, it's not quite the same thing as someone sitting behind you kicking your seat because you dared to use it in the way designed! There's no convention of not reclining a seat on a plane (except during meal times).

Ask politely first then if they refuse they'll find my knees burried in the back of their seat occassionally drumming out a nice beat until they do raise it.

mousymouse,i agree.you have to hold your baby on your lap all the way in Europe if your child is under to,you are not allowed to book a seat for them,at least in Norway,i have just come back from a holiday and my got the same problem,and to top it the guy sitting next to me would not move to his own sit but came really close to us,DD kicks anything her feet can,and i was always holding her feet so she could not kick him,she is only 4months,,his face made me scared to even ask,eventually after many kicks from baby he moved,,a little,otherwise i spent the 2 and half hrs with my baby glued to my chest bcoz someone HAD to recline their seat,and honestly i didn't ask coz like i said,some people's faces when they see you with a child on the plane,,DD was super though,,sorry i think i went off topic

susiwotshoes - well said - very true. Its like the blinds and the lights - they are under the control of the passenger but that doesnt mean the airline cant stop you having them up/down on or off at certain times - landing take off meals etc - yet these function in exactly the same way when we cant use them so equally the airlines should put their foot down and say seat can only be reclined on longer or night flights - even though like the lights and blinds they could still be adjusted. Anyway must dash got to go and turn my stereo up to number 50 - why - because I can ! Also might repeatedly ring my neighbours doorbell and run back in - you ve guessed it - cos its there! Cats looking worried - just got electric hedge trimmers out !

Ok, we've all paid for seats and so are entitled to do what we like (e.g. reclining our seats as far as we can). Will advise DP that's exactly what he should do next time we fly and he finds himself uncomfortable. Common courtesy be hanged.

Of course kicking the seat in front to make a point is just rude. Have never done this, nor would I. When it's happened to me (small children in seats behind), I've just ignored it. I wouldn't expect their parents to stop them; after all, I guess it's their right to do as they please.

just what i said,i had to hold me baby's feet,but when im trying to do something else and my hands are elsewhere,then she would kick him,only he was beside,not in front,still letting your child or yourself kick is not the right way to go about it,not everyone who reclines their seat do it just to pisssomeone off,,

my baby's feet of course,typing with a baby on your lap is not easy,,,

Seat position IS a matter of health and safety - so you cant rule out the car analagy - people die from DVTs - my sister in laws mother died after getting off a plane. I wonder if she was jammed behind somebody peacefully reclining for the whole flight - or sat next to some equal inconsideratum with dont dare disturb me body language. I do know she had wanted to use the loo shortly before landing and a few times during flight but didnt bother cos would have had to disturb people -so only got up once or twice on a twelve hour flight. Maybe and I stress just maybe - she would still be alive today had she felt more able to get up and stretch her legs a few times.

the point I'm trying to make to is address those who say that because the seats 'can' recline, they are 'entitled' to recline them, regardless of others, and that it's the airlines' fault for providing reclining seats. This reasoning is just as childish as kicking the back of the seat in front.

"Of course kicking the seat in front to make a point is just rude. Have never done this, nor would I."

See that's the trick you don't outright kick. You wedge your knee into it and pulse your knees up and down. If the person in front complains I simply explain that this is where my knees where before they reclined their seat into the space that was occupied by my knees and is now shared by their seat.

Oh suda :(. I was lucky my legs only went to sleep. I think with it being so long ago and me being so young at the time helped. I don't understand how people can justify people not being able to go to the toilet.

I once asked to be allowed out to the toilet on a 6hr flight and was told no you can't you selfish fuckwit. I then had to avoid drinking for the rest of the flight as I was worried about having an accident and making the flight smelly for others. Nt drinking fluids is a DVT risk. There but for the grace of god go I.

You have to complain to the airlines. I've had this problem and the stewards just say that the person in front has every right to recline their seat.

It's the airline's fault.

and Agree with Suda, it's a safety issue as well as comfort.

^mayorquimby Mon 09-Aug-10 10:10:35
Ask politely first then if they refuse they'll find my knees burried in the back of their seat occassionally drumming out a nice beat until they do raise it. ^

Why? What makes your comfort more important than theirs?

^mayorquimby Mon 09-Aug-10 10:52:36
"Of course kicking the seat in front to make a point is just rude. Have never done this, nor would I."

See that's the trick you don't outright kick. You wedge your knee into it and pulse your knees up and down. If the person in front complains I simply explain that this is where my knees where before they reclined their seat into the space that was occupied by my knees and is now shared by their seat.^

What an angry and petty person you are.

I just want to add I have never kicked the back of someone's seat. My knees have touched the back of someone's seat but that's because when the seat was reclined it hit my knees and they were then wedged and I was unable to move them away properly. I am not tall by the way.

My seat was fully upright yet I could not put my back against with the person behind having their feet on it doing their exercises. Trying not to have a bladder incident in those circumstances was very difficult. Also ant turbulence and i would have been at risk of hitting my head on the seat in front. What was so rude and inconsiderate about my actions?