To feel I did not sign up for this joyless existence on 3 hrs sleep a night

[Athrawes]

Everyone says "well it's what you signed up for" when refering to the lack of sleep and utterly joyless existence that I now have. My baby is nearly 4 weeks old and sleeps for 2.5 hrs at a stretch during the day and an hour at a time at night. In between short sleeps he needs fed, winded, changed and persuaded to sleep. People say "ah that's normal" but I know that three of my friends who have babies the same age are sleeping for 5-7 hrs a night.
He's a cute enough kid but I feel utterly lacking all pleasure from him and when I wake at night when he cries just want to leave him there so overwhelmed am I by the knowledge that it will never end. If i was single I would just leave town and put him up for adoption - this is NOT what I signed up for. I hate the people who tell me that swaddling/cosleeping/expressing are the answer as I have tried them all and nothing works.

I could only express when I was engorged in the mornings, so you have my sympathies there too - some formula will not kill him if it gives you a night off to get some solid sleep. Once you've had a decent's night sleep it can make all the difference to coping.

All mine were long stretch sleepers at night, I wouldn't have had 4dc if I'd endured what you've been through!

My health visitor gave me a life saving book called Three in a Bed when ds1 was 6 months old, and had never slept for more than one hour in a stretch since he was born - a longed for child who I would gladly have pawned to the nearest stranger just to get some SLEEP!

I'm a pretty conventional type of person, so idea of having the baby in bed with me was strange and a bit scary, but I was so desperate I'd try anything, and ds started sleeping with me. 2 days later and bliss, bliss, he started sleeping for 4-5 hours at a time.

With next 2 dc's put their cots right up next to my bed from the start, and rolled them in and out their cot to be fed. Also bliss as I got enough sleep. I read somewhere that when you've just had a baby you have a hormone surging around you that stops you going into a deep sleep - that's why dp's don't wake up to crying babies! - so the best sleep you can get is pretty light sleep anyway. Before I found co-sleeping worked for us, I found that having to get up, walk to the baby, pick dc up, feed dc, walk back to bed, try to get back to sleep woke me up completely. But with the baby right next to me I didn't really completely wake up, even to feed him/her, and felt I had plenty of sleep.

Babies also seemed remarkably contented, but this was probably just luck.

Definitely worth a think! :)

"My breasts will be drowning the poor sod in milk but as soon as I apply the pump they go on strike! "

Ah - that'll be the stress of expressing for you. Have you tried expressing on one boob with the baby on the other? I know, I know, I know - you'll be reading that and thinking "bugger that" - in fact that was my reaction when I first read the suggestion in the instructions to my Avent IQ pump. But it makes an amazing difference. The baby does the work and the pump reaps the benefits.

My DH did the midnight / 1am bottle allowing me to get a longer stretch of sleep.

Your baby isn't crap, just normal. They are all like this, honestly. From week 6/7 it will get easier every week, I promise you.

Totally sympathise. I breastfed both of my dss and ds1 was a nightmare. Cried all the time, fed all the time for ages. I agree with most of the advice already given. A bit of formula won't hurt. Also the swing is amazing, knocks them out

Cranial osteopathy is fantastic. Ds2 had that as a toddler for behaviour problems and it was a miracle. I'd been put onto it by someone who'd had an unsettled baby. Have heard so many great things about it. Don't know if it's available in your country?

I have insomnia at the moment due to house move, exdh being an arse etc... so know what it's like to lose sleep. Be kind to yourself and you'll look back on these days with a hazy memory once the joy begins

Yeah, this stage is like being a Vietnam prisoner of war - with sleep deprivation and hallucinations being normal.

Horriblehorriblehorrible. My partner did most of the night feeds as baby was a huge cluster-feeder, and I would have seriously lost the plot if I'd had to do that at night too. She'd cluster-feed and snooze on the boob all day, sometimes. Unhappy memories. If I tried to move her off me she'd scream. Boy, could she scream. Shudder.

This too will pass. You'll get through it. Keep yer chin up, chicken.

Agree with Cargirl that one bottle of formula a day is not the end of the world, especially as you've already got breastfeeding established. And if it gives you a bit of extra sleep and keeps you sane then it's worth it. I sometimes think we put ridiculous amounts of pressure on ourselves to exclusively breastfeed, at the expense of our own health. If I recall correctly, you can mix whatever you express with formula to make up a full feed. That way you can keep trying to express, and hopefully after a while you can make up a full feed with expressed milk alone.

I fed DS one bottle of formula a day until he was about 2 months, then switched to exclusive breastfeeding and was still breastfeeding him at 12 months. He's now a strapping toddler, happy, healthy and strong.

Congratulations on actually being able to switch on the computer and type. The first 6 weeks of DDs life I couldn't even do that. It turned out that I couldn't breastfed (only really admited by medical professions after I gave up) so DD fed every 1.5 to 2 hours for first 3 weeks and even when on formula she had so much catching up to do it was still every 2.5 hours on formula till she was 8 weeks old.
The only good thing I can say is it does get better.

athrawes this isn't going to be a popular suggestion but I am only going to tell you what helped ME,I had no idea what to do with a baby, nothing was coming naturally, I was exhausted and at my wits end and then I read Gina Fords Contented Little Baby Book (the NEWEST version - very important) and started to put some structure into my day (I'm a control freak so loved this) DS really responded to this and I felt better having a modicum (as much as you can with a 4 weeker) of control. I wasn't totally rigid with it (never really managed the 7am start) but it gave me some ideas and gave me my confidence back.

GF won't work for everyone but it does work for some people.

Hope you manage to get some sleep soon.

Total opposite advise to the norm, my ds is 9 weeks and went from 2 hour night sleeps to 7-8 hour sleeps when we got him his own room. It's his dark quiet haven and he settles now walking in there. I know it's against current advice but it had worked for us. Also has a dummy for tricky bedtimes and a white noise day. Really...whatever works for you is fine.

Oh I could only express with a picture of him in front of me! Mad eh?

been there, got the t shirt!!!

THIS TOO SHALL PASS

hang on in there my friend and ignore the cxxts that boast about how much their small babies sleep, most likely lying

I have nothing to add except that there is a reason why sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture!

It's skews how you feel about everything. It will get better, slowly!

Athrawes, lots of sympathy to you. I have had 2 chronic non-sleepers so understand (actually have flashbacks) of how difficult it is.

As you are breastfeeding, I totally second what superdragon said about co-sleeping. I personally think that expressing is far more stressful than the supposed benefits it brings. And I am no earth mother, just someone very practical who wants to get through the day with minimum stress on everyone.

Co-sleeping made an intolerable situation bearable for us. Does not mean I did not get very frustrated at night (my dcs started hourly wakings from 4-5 months' old) for many months, but it generally worked. I was not tired in the day from frequent nocturnal wakings.

As superdragon says, you never really wake. So you are subsisting in a twilight zone and you can surprising get rested that way. I believe the theory is you never enter deep sleep and just kick around in the shallows. You only get that tired feeling if you are suddenly awakened from deep sleep. Ironically, it was after my dcs started suddenly sleeping through that I actually felt tired just from one waking - that is because they were waking me from deep sleep.

My SIL who had one non-sleeper reported the same.

It is still early days. Hopefully, your ds might turn a corner soon. Hang in there. Lots of walks with the buggy in the day. Apart from the swing (which worked for a brief period in their lives for 20 minutes a shot), try a sling or a buggy, even in the house! Whatever works to get them to sleep and stay sleeping.

The horror of a non sleeping newborn is beyond comprehension to anyone who hasn't experienced it. I totally empathise with how you feel -my first child was a 'perfect' baby so I was completely unprepared for the impact that maximum sleeping times of 90 minutes would do next time. Please please tell people IRKL how you are feeling -ask your HV for some help - she may be able to refer you to Homestart for help if you are in the UK. and if you have apartner, don't fall into the trap of thinking that because he needs to get up for work, he needs to sleep all night every night. My mental and physical health suffered dramatically because I was to ashamed to ask for help and too tired to make my husband understand how desperate I was Other things definately worth a try are cranial ostopathy, a swing and white noise (try having the hoover on outside the bedroom door -if it works, you can buy CDs of white noise online)
This will NOT last forever - each day and night that you get through is an inch nearer to getting your child more settled and you getting more sleep.

My first DC (now 11!) was a forceps delivery, and he cried all the time - total exhausting nightmare. I think it was the forceps birth, and he was perhaps in pain. Someone suggested cranial osteopathy, but I was too exhausted to sort it out. Seeing the suggestions above reminded me. With hindsight, really wished I'd done it. Can you get your hv, OH, mother, anyone, to sort out an appointment for your DS?

To get through this period, imagine you're climbing Everest. Don't expect to have a jolly happy time - it's hard work. However, when you're at the top, and can see the view, it's worth it. You just have to hang on in there.

Re expressing, I used to drink a pint of water, have a biscuit, look at the baby rather than the pump, and imagine I was feeding him. As it's a reflex, it's a matter of getting your mind in the right place. It's a skill, and you can't expect to master it at once, so don't get disheartened. Lots of people never manage it, and my OH gave my DS the odd bottle of formula to get through.

Just remember, we all empathise and have been through it. I personally found it the worst point (just about in my life!), and things only get better.

I am sorry. It is shit-tastic when your baby won't sleep. Mine would only sleep on me in a sling whilst I was walking around in the day time and I felt an overwhelming urge to punch everyone who lectured me on sleeping whilst my baby slept.

And her nights were horrible, feeds took an hour and then she'd only sleep for 30 mins before needing to feed again.

Unfortunately it is normal for some babies not to be terribly sleepy to begin with. DD has never slept for more than 12 hours in a day and some days has only 9 hours in total. This is normal horribleness you are living through. You aren't doing anything wrong and nothing bad is happening to your baby.

At 11 weeks my DD will now fall asleep in the pushchair during the day, and she has started reliably sleeping from about 9:30 through till 3 so I get a decent 5 hours in then. She is still a nightmare after that and needs to be held down in order to sleep, but after that first night feed DH and I take turns to soothe her.

It will get better, possibly within the next couple of weeks, definitely within the next 6-8 weeks. I know that feels unimaginable now.

I don't want to offer any advice because I know how annoying it is and you've already been told of everything that might conceivably work. But on the point about other people whose babies sleep more I'd just like to point out that drawing comparisons is pointless. Nobody but you knows about the reality of caring for your baby and you have no idea what the other parents around you are coping with behind closed doors.

Yesterday I met a woman who I'd shared a room with in the birth centre after DD was born. She was saying that establishing breastfeeding had been a nightmare and she'd felt so jealous of me because I'd obviously been a natural and had gone home the day of the birth. I felt so guilty because in fact feeding did become a nightmare for us from day 5 onwards, and only really settled down at around 8 weeks. So this poor woman had spent 11 weeks thinking she was some kind of comparative failure when in fact she just didn't see how hard things got for us.

You are totally within your rights to biff anyone who tells you (a) their baby is sleeping solidly (THEY ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY LYING, YOU KNOW) (b) you 'signed up for this' (c) to 'enjoy it while it lasts' (this is the one that used to drive me to tears.

I cannot begin to express the sheer hell of a new baby. I can also tell you, nine years - and one other child - down the line that it will get better. Not immediately, but it will. And you 'signed up' (stupid bloody expression) for parenthood, not what you've currently got; and I can also tell you that the experience of parenthood is now pretty lovely. Get through this bit. Just grit your teeth. Gin helps too

Oh, and yes there will be joy. Lots of joy. Just biff them. You know you'll feel better.

The only things I can add are to second everyone else in saying - good luck and it will pass - and to second the advice to give baby the right ideas about day and night - get as much food and sunshine into him during the day as humanly possible.
I had a nightmare first four weeks with DD, and at the end of the month we went off on a group holiday to Devon with a bunch of childless friends. My mother and DH thought it was insane, but actually that's when it turned around for us - and I think that part of the reason is that we all got lots of sunshine, exercise and fresh air in the daytime.

I sympathise. DS3 slept for 20 mins a night and he was no 5 so I had to get up and do school runs etc having had no sleep at all for days on end. It was horrible.. DS had severe reflux and often choked and stopped breathing so I also had to rush him to hospital a few times and panic constantly. he screamed and was unconsoulable the whole time he was awake.

The good news is that it does get better. When we bough an amby hammock we got 5 hours sleep a night which was fantastic after no sleep at all. Movement helped him. Medicine helped him about 50%.

When he was old enough to 'play' (about 7-8 months) he got abit happier and at 12 months he slept through 7 hours a night but we had to cosleep.

At 20 months his reflux is improving and has been since about 17 months. It really is a case of grin and bear it and KNOW it will get better. Most babies get better/easier much sooner than my DS did. The firt few months were by far the hardest. My other DCs (inc twins) were nowhere near as bad as he was, most babies aren't.

I also have a troublesome 4 wk old sleeper. I can only add that cranial osteopath worked wonders for us. Feeding him more- i did ask hv about this first. Getting your dp onside. It is such a stressful time but everyone in rl and mn say it gets better and even in a wk ive noticed him improve. Am looking forward to the 6wk mark though.

This will pass, the first few months are the hardest.

My ds never slept for any more than 30 minutes... my milk didn't come in... it was the hardest 4 weeks of my life.

No-one signed up for THAT, it's perfectly normal to feel as you are, but please be reassured that it absolutely will not last, it will get better.

See if you OH can take the strain, so that you can have a good long stretch of sleep. Even my utterly useless OH gave me 2 night feeds off....

Oh, jellybeans.... what to say... you poor thing!

The first few weeks of my DS's life were the worst of my life. Truly miserable, tiring, stressful and painful. I've blanked a lot of it out now.

It does get better.

When I had my DD we lived on ready meals, the house went to pot and I did bugger all. It was much more pleasant and got us through the first couple of months.