To be shocked at the swimwear section on this morning today??

[mosschops30]

John Scott was back because he likes dressing 'curvy' ladeez!

They had people on who are doing some sort of pageant, talking about how they were bullied for their weight issues in school and how this is giving them confidence.

He showed swimsuits that 'take 10lbs of you' swimsuits that 'go up to a size 32' and ways to drape a sarong to show off your 'curves'

AIBU in thinking that theres a difference in being curvy and being clinially obese?????
Yes its fine to not be a size 8, yes its fine to enjoy your food, yes its fine to wear swimwear whatever age or size you are ....... but calling these ladies 'curvy' One of them was clearly clinically obese, and he was celebrating the fact that these women could wear swimwear and embrace their bodies.

Sorry but you can embrace your body as much as you like, but being that weight is not healthy, its just as bad as putting super skinny size 0 models on there are saying how great they look in swimwear

I've never been into Greggs in my life and not been into McDonalds for at least fifteen years. And there are no crisps, chocolate, sweets or biscuits in my house. Yet still I manage to be obese (only by a fraction of a BMI point at the moment, admittedly). It is quite possible to get fat eating only "healthy" food. You just need to eat too much of it.

I think it's this stereotype that a fat person must spend their life cramming down Big Macs that is most bloody annoying.

Apart from anything else, a lot of obese people are on the way down in weight. But they can't lose it all overnight (many specialists say that actually the optimum rate of sustainable weight loss is 1-2lb a month, not the 1-2lb a week that diet books tell you to aim for) and do need to wear something in the meantime. Clearly they shouldn't get anything nice or that "celebrates" their body or that describes them as "curvy", though. Until they hit the magic 29.9 BMI they must wear only specially branded Obesosuits, hang a sign round their necks saying "Fat" and ring a bell everywhere they go.

Yes LB, alcoholics can swear off alcohol forever and never have to drink it again. They don't - and can't - learn to moderate their drinking.

But overeaters can also learn about their trigger foods and avoid them. They can't avoid food altogether, no, but they can stick to healthy food with a low GI etc. I'm not saying that would be easy (far from it) but it is possible. In the same way that a bulimic would need to deal with her issues and learn to eat normally. In extreme cases it would probably be a lifetime issue, in the same way that an alcoholic/anorexic/heroin addict would always need to ensure that they were making the right choices.

Mabeye the terms such as 'fuller figure' or 'larger lady'. Some of you are saying that we should not promote obesity and that its just as bad as say a lady on the other end of the spectrum, and smoking and drinking, however whatever size they are they are still human being who are entitled to some dignity, and if having nice clothes cut for their shape does that than so be it. Surely we should be encouraging people who are obese to take up exercise and if that means designing a swimming range for their shape than so be it. We should be encouraging it not discouraging it.

It's really not that simple TPL - much, much more complicated. You are still putting food in your mouth. You don't tell to an alcoholic who was a gin drinker to switch to wine.

I also don't know any ex-anorexics who don't still struggle with it. They all get horribly thin whenever they are stressed. And overeaters binge. It's a lot easier to hide losing a stone than it is to hide putting on one.

Do you seriously think that being included in the media celebration of female form is what makes the difference to one's overeating?

It sounds a little like fat people asking not to be criticised for their habits.

One of the things I struggle with is at times being rather fruit loop. I want to say 'please tax credits people, let me off not doing my renewal...I was feeling like jumping off a cliff so I didn't do it. Please keep paying me Housing Benefit even though I've done f. all to get my review form into you because I was feeling crap'. Of course I'd like to be given a bit of a chuffing break because these things are like mountains to me when I feel low. HUGE mountains, but life doesn't work that way. I have to step up to the mark and force myself to get on.

So, though I deeply sympathise with fat and thin people entrenched in their damaging eating habits (I stop eating btw. and have displayed anorexic behaviour myself in the past), it isn't up to anybody else but YOU to make you feel like going swimming, eating/not eating a sausage roll. You can get help from your GP, as I can, but you can't sit there asking everybody to be nice and understanding and celebratory about you when you know yourself you have to get well, get healthy and get on.

I wish there were people to hold my hand right now and take the hard work away and to help me avoid facing the things I can hardly bare to face, but there aren't and I need to do this for me. You need to go and exercise whether or not the general public are making you feel good about it or not.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave Fri 06-Aug-10 14:00:17
""I've never been into Greggs in my life and not been into McDonalds for at least fifteen years. And there are no crisps, chocolate, sweets or biscuits in my house. Yet still I manage to be obese
It is quite possible to get fat eating only "healthy" food. You just need to eat too much of it.""

Snap!

hobbgoblin, I still do not understand how showing on TV that there are swimming costumes that will fit lager/ fat/ obese... means "celebrating" being larger/fat/obese. It is actually encouraging obese people to go swimming wearing something that will fit and suit their shape! You say yourself that women should swimm and be active to loose the weight why should they not do it in something nice and fashionable? Because fat is not showing you off enough and fat ladies should look ugly as well preferably?

LB I'm not trying to patronise anyone or over simplify the issue. At the bottom of my post I said exactly the same as you, that anyone with disordered eating could expect to have to cope with it for their whole life. I also know women who have had anorexia and compulsive over eating disorders, and I stand by my statement that the amount/type of food they eat is a symptom of their mental health problems. Once they unpick the causes of their disorders they then have to learn to eat normally. You wouldn't suggest that an anorexic couldn't learn to eat healthily and indeed, that she shouldn't bother because it would be too hard?

Prettyfly - Not sure that anyone said that larger women should be shamed into staying at home - so not quite sure who you are telling to "sod off"

Equally, no-one said that they shouldn't have a right to access different types of clothes. In fact, I have said at least 3 times that obese people should be able to wear whatever they want!

My point throughout has been this - surely if we draw a line at being underweight...if we make comments and references to the unhealthiness of being a size zero.....then we should EQUALLY be flagging the health risks of those who are obese.

gorionine, I thought a lot about my position on this and it was hard to come up with a personal conclusion that didn't leave me firmly on the fence about the points made.

I agree with the fact that marginalisation by not including fat and thin women alongside more average weight women in fashion features is discouraging in many ways, but the only satisfactory conclusion I can reach is that encouragement for those so badly disordered in their eating should come from health professionals and not the media. That is marginalising in itself but maybe that's just the way it needs to be. TV and other entertainment media are there to educate and inform but they are not responsible for individual self esteem. I don't think you can say that just because such a feature doesn't include costumes for the obese then they are not being sufficiently inclusive.

Big Fashion shows don't have a bit for people who are 5 feet tall like me, or those with prosthetics or whatever. Why should they? These are specialist areas. Catering for the obese and their need for clothes is a specialist area too once you get into the realms of ++++sizes. It is part of the culture of one's condition. TV isn't part of the therapy to overcome such a condition is it?

"celebrate larger women"

Maylee - I didn't see the programme, but if you (or someone you knew) was put forward by an agency to be a 'larger woman' model, do you think you'd be expected to go on a national TV show and be called 'obese' ?

Or would 'curvy' be a rather flattering remark that might push away some of the potential awkwardness of the situation, calm some of those butterflies in your stomach, and help you appear calm and confident ?

The OP is all about it being wrong to have used the word 'curves' and that it was considered too complimentary.

As for your point about "size 0 vs obese", the same situation seems unlikely to arise - costumes for smaller sizes are probably many times more common (not that I've been looking!).

However, both extremes have had specialist programmes covering their specific issues.

What seems to be at cross-purposes here is whether a generally light-hearted 'wake you up' programme which (I've not seen it for years, so guessing) probably includes news, sport, finance, plus pop, 'celebrity news', and in this case a 'fashion' spot, should be an outlet for something verging on medical issues, when they're merely doing a piece linked to it being summery weather ? (even if it was raining here, yesterday morning!)

Should add "I think whether or not to use the word 'curves' is just a non-issue" - certainly when a lot of the debate has moved from that one slot in a TV programme to comparison of eating disorders vs alcohol and drug addicts, and now to 'size 0 vs obese'.

I do take your point *NetworkGuy" that it is intended to be a light hearted morning magazine show so perhaps we shouln't expect them to take a serious approach to everything.

But, yes, the debate has moved on to size zero vs obese. I simply don't like the way it seems acceptable (not to everyone, but generally)to call an actress / model etc things like "scarily skinny" or "unheathily skinny" or a "bag of bones". We wouldn't however see an article or piece on TV which called another actress or celebrity "scarily fat" or "a big roll of fat".

If This Morning featured a piece on swimwear for women who are below a size 8 for example - I'm not sure others on here would be quite so forgiving.

Maylee, it really isn't difficult to source something in a size 8 though is it? The shops are full of them, not sure when it comes to size 6, size 4? Probably not many in Evans though. I'd have no problem at all in a show helping anyone of any size to find clothes they like and feel good in.

Anyhow, I agree that it was just 10 minute fashion slot, it wasn't a health campaign, just a piece pointing out to women who are in plus sizes where they can find suitable swimwear. There was really no need to use the obesity stick in this particular section.

Over the years these type of shows have covered all sorts of stuff, I've seen them promoting knickers with built in bums, padded, push up bras etc.

It seems we're all insecure in our bodies, regardless of how they are covered.

Tbh I wouldn't comment on someone who was really thin, or someone who was really fat because
a) I'm not that impolite

and

b) I don't presume to know what personal anguish and torment lie behind their fat or lack of it, and I don't think I can offer them any advice that would be useful.

Also I think that saying to someone who obviously eats far, far more than their body needs just to eat less is about as useful as telling an anorexic to eat more. No-one with any imagination or insight would say either.

I dont think any unhealthy weights should be promoted or held up as good examples, where they I didnt see it?

Celebrating women who accept their bodies and dont conform to media pressure - fine I think GOKS How to look good naked does this well.

Maylee wouldn't we see anything negative about larger sizes?? Really? How many gossip rags out there trade on "OMG look how disgusting is now they've put on weight!"?

Lets compare size 0 and obesity shall we? And how they are represented in the fashion press?

Now I haven't read a fashion mag in years (for a reason) but answer me these if you have any fashion mags to hand.

1 - how many weight loss ads and articles are there?

2 - how many "horror" photos/articles can you find of actresses etc. who have gained weight

3 - how many slim (up to size 8) models are featured?

4 - how many "plus" size models - that'll be size 12 and up.

5 - Are there any obese people in there that aren't "before" pictures?

5 - how many articles are there talking about how awful it is to be underweight?

6 - how many "horror" photos of underweight celebs?

Of course size 0 and obesity are treated differently, one gets glamourised, the other is seen as horrific by our society.

When the economy collapses ,the currency is devalued and there's no food in the shops, it'll be the fatties with their prudent reserves, who'll be the healthy ones!

The difference between size 0 models and obese women is that the industry is (was??/is??) forcing girls/women to be size 0 to be hired for the jobs, the women/girls are not like that due to their own issues/health problems.

A much closer, but still not perfect comparision is obese to anorexic. Anorexics, on the whole, get sympathy - Obese people, on the whole, get scorn.

I dont know......

I dont understand why the big suprise that a tv programme 'normalizes' being overweight. They normalize being dangerously underweight all the time! 'They' dont give a toss about anyone's health. They are just trying to sell us crap.

I have never been overweight. I have been on one diet (It just reinforced every idea I had about the diet industry anyway). But does making an overweight woman feel good about herself really make her want to stay overweight? I would have thought that giving her some confidence and pride in her appearance would encourage her to take more care of her health?

I think our society has become so fecked up about food it has no idea what is fat/healthy/real/curvy. The women who are most admired are never seen in RL we rely on airbrushed photos and forget the fact that being on tv really does put on pounds. In order to appear thin on tv you have to be horribly skinny.

Good point already made that providing attractive swimsuits for overweight women would perhaps encourage them to excersise.

Another important point - not all thin people are thin due to their amazing self control and healthy lifestyles. Take it from one who knows.

I HATE that I am often excluded from being a 'real' woman because I am not a size 16. Pisses me right off.

Not all thin women think about their weight and we dont all want to make our daughters anorexic - please take note.

Here here chippingin - lets just ignore eh!

Have I missed something? There have been a lot of posts that I have thought to myself "you're a bitch" but I took katiestar's as a joke. Although there probably is some truth to it. I'll have the last laugh

I thought it was meant as a joke.

But I may have felt about it differently if I was overweight.

One person's joke is another's insult.

I might have thought it was a poor joke to, but from other things she has said on this thread, I somehow doubt it.

I mean, I can joke with the best of them, when I typed this line before The difference between a size 0 model and an obese person.. I instantly thought 'is about 70lbs' but I showed a little restraint as I didn't want to offend anyone on this thread even though, I am myself, obese.