To be shocked at the swimwear section on this morning today??

[mosschops30]

John Scott was back because he likes dressing 'curvy' ladeez!

They had people on who are doing some sort of pageant, talking about how they were bullied for their weight issues in school and how this is giving them confidence.

He showed swimsuits that 'take 10lbs of you' swimsuits that 'go up to a size 32' and ways to drape a sarong to show off your 'curves'

AIBU in thinking that theres a difference in being curvy and being clinially obese?????
Yes its fine to not be a size 8, yes its fine to enjoy your food, yes its fine to wear swimwear whatever age or size you are ....... but calling these ladies 'curvy' One of them was clearly clinically obese, and he was celebrating the fact that these women could wear swimwear and embrace their bodies.

Sorry but you can embrace your body as much as you like, but being that weight is not healthy, its just as bad as putting super skinny size 0 models on there are saying how great they look in swimwear

actually Fanjoforthemammaries her specialist definitely said the problem was that overfeeding since being a baby meant her hypothalamus never had the chance to be able to regulate itself so has malfunctioned throughout her life, never being able to know when she was full, as from infancy her feeling of being sated was always over-ridden by her mother feeding her more. So whilst you assume i'm judging, i'm not, i'm quoting what she was told. Why on earth would I be judging someone I love? I have nothing but understanding for her, and have always been "on her side".

Nothing like jumping to conclusions, though, is there?

Sorry, but I'm with the OP and Maygunner.

I didn't see the TV article in question, but it sounds very much like it normalised being morbidly obese. This is not a good thing.

I know people have a whole variety of reasons for being the weight they are, but surely if you are seriously under or over weight, you should be aiming to reach a healthy weight?

If you are overweight, and it's not due to a medical condition, it really is just a case of consistently eating less and exercising more to become a healthy weight.

For all those saying they can't lose weight, I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Sure, lots of people have emotional links with eating - but that doesn't absolve you of any responsibility to manage your weight. Your desire to lose weight needs to be greater than your desire to eat, and at that key time when you're walking past the biscuit jar, you need that sharp stab of reality (you're fat, they're not curves, they're rolls - it's different) to make you not reach in.

Do not trivialise the actions, emotions or opinions of those that have managed to lose weight. Nearly all the replies to Maygunner's post are full of judgement and self-justification. You all seem to think that she can't understand you, because she's one of them now, not one of you. She's been where you have, I'm sure she's had emotional issues with food the same as you have. I bet her losing weight wasn't easy. I used to be size 18. I used to eat 400g bars of Dairy Milk in one sitting. I used to eat an entire pack of Hobnobs in ten minutes. One day I decided enough was enough. I realised I was fat - really fat. I didn't like being fat - I started looking at gastric bands, prescription weight loss medicine, the billions of diet pills on offer, looking for an easy way to do it that didn't involve me changing my unhealthy relationship with food. There wasn't an easy way - I just had to eat less, move more.

Nowherewoman - you say that Maygunner's post is full of self-loathing (which pesonally I can't see anywhere), but self loathing is the strongest thing coming across from those that say you can't lose weight. You think people who have lost weight feel superior to fat people? I think it's the other way round - those who are fat seem to think they are inferior, that they just don't have what it takes to lose weight, but I don't think that's the case. You can do it, if you really want to, but it is fuckinghardwork.

Eating disorders cover both ends of the weight spectrum.

I personally wouldn't ever be so rude to suggest to someone that they were killing themselves through eating too much/too little food, as there are obviously deep pyschological issues at play.

I certainly don't object to a fashion piece trying to boost the confidence of any women, regardless of their shape and size. There is far too much attention paid to the woman's bodies, as if that is all we are.

Some research has shown that being underweight (measured by BMI) is actually more detrimental to one's longevity than being extremely obese. It seems the healthiest catergory to fall into is 'overweight'.

We need to stop obsessing over bloody cellulite and dress sizes, stupid BMI and start to concentrate on living a healthy lifestyle, following a balanced diet and stop caring what other people look like in a swimsuit and flinging around whatever perjorative labels we can attach to someone from a mere glance.

Posts like that from the OP make that less likely quite frankly.

Nowherewoman- I've kept the weight off for around a decade now, so I'm hoping that it's going to stay that way. I can understand why you could see 'self-lothing' in my post but it's only my past self that I despair for. Having lived as both overweight and at a normal weight person for substantial periods of time, it frustrates me that so much of my life was wasted whilst being fat.

I spent all of my teen years and a lot of my twenties at my largest, and it influenced my life in so many ways. Obviously the number one issue was that it affected my confidence (I realise that some larger women don't have this problem, but I think that many do even if they outwardly appear confident) which then had an affect on how I socialised with other people and just generally went about my day. Aside from that, my appearance and health were simply not in a good way but because I'd always been fat I didn't know what it actually felt like to be healthy. As such, I'd convince myself that because I could walk a fair bit without getting too out of breath or because I could do a lot of housework without getting exhausted, that I must be quite fit and healthy.

It got to the stage however (the 'click' as somebody said) where I just realised that this cycle of feeling unhappy about being fat and then over-eating to make myself feel better was pointless, and was ultimately having a drastically negative effect on my life. People keep saying that fat people know they're unhealthy and don't need to be continually told, but I don't think that's true. If people hadn't showed both contempt and concern for my weight, I would have felt that it wasn't really that much of an issue and would have just been able to carry on, over-eating as always. I suppose it was my 'rock bottom' where I just realised that for me personally, being fat and happy just couldn't happen because I would eat to make myself happy, be unhappy about my weight, then eat because I was unhappy. It's a dangerous way to live.

Since I lost the weight, I look back and just wonder why I didn't do anything sooner. The improvement in my life has been beyond drastic, which is why I'm so sad that I spent a good part of my life living in such an unhappy and unhealthy way. I could never have anticipated what a difference it would make. I was SO defensive about my weight, and I really did snap at anybody that dared to challenege me about it, even when they clearly had my best interests at heart.

I don't think that anybody should be made to feel worthless or humiliated because of the way they look, but a lot of the time I do think that people need a reality check. Whilst smoking can be seen as 'worse' because it affects other people as well, I don't think we can start comparing different levels of unhealthiness and then suggest that some deserve more contempt than others.

The fact is that if you're morbidly obese, a 40-a-day smoker, or heavily alcohol-dependant you need as much encouragement (and help!) from other people as possible. But you need to be criticised too so that you can understand why they way you're living needs to be changed. I work as a nurse and I can honestly say that the most defensive people I come across with an addiction if you like, are the overweight.

Drug addicts and alcoholics can be defensive, but are much more eager to look for help in my experience. Being overweight is becoming more common, and I think this simply allows other people to think, ''Well it's not just me so it can't be too bad''.

It was never my intention to hurt feelings or make people angry on this thread. This is the way I feel as a result of my personal experience, and whilst I may be blunt about the issue, I really don't think I'm wrong.

Great post Maygunner - you put it much more eloquently than I did.

Easting disorders are very difficult problems to tackle.

Those who are addicted to eating excessively can't simply stop eating food, they'd die. The same doesn't apply to alcohol/drugs/cigarettes.

It is a very complex issue and not one helped by simply demanding that a fashion piece on a daytime magazine show calls an overweight person obese. As if something so simple would sort it out.

Do you think that feeling good in a swimsuit may encourage a bigger girl to get to the pool/beach and have a nice time?

Or maybe it's better that they all stay at home and trough on crisps while watching thin girls parade around in swimwear on TV, all the while becoming more and more insecure about their body shape.

Out of curiosity, how many of those that are overweight consider themselves to have eating disorders?

Naetha, would you consider extending that question to those that are underweight too?

It is not easy to diagnose yourself with an eating disorder, just as it's difficult to diagnose yourself with any psychological illness.

I'm overweight at the moment due to medical reasons, drugs, surgery etc.

In my early 30's I was diagnosed with depression and was eating a very peculiar diet. I had to eat the same things all the time, just like I had to wear the same clothes all of the time. I put on weight. When I got over my depression, I ate better than I'd ever done in my life and stopped getting weighed. I've never felt better.

I was underweight during my 20's due to restricting my food, obsessive calorie counting, binge eating and throwing up, taking laxatives.

An eating disorder? Well I guess we all had them in my circle of friends at one time or another, it's beyond my ablities to give it a diagnosis.

Oh for goodness sake, no one has said bigger women shouldn't wear swimsuits or go out in public.

Maygunner, your post, particularly the second paragraph resonates so much with me. Great post.

Haven't they PatsyStone? That's the whole point of the OP isn't it? That doing a feature on flattering swimsuits for fat women normalises their weight. So they should remain invisible and ignored.

Please explain how this thread isn't about that.

I have a friend who is desperate to be a mother. Absolutely desperate. But she is morbidly obese and it has made her infertile. She can't get IVF until she loses weight but every time she tries, she goes back into her bulimia cycle again and ends up binge eating/making herself puke and puts back on all the weight she's lost and more. She loves to dance but her ankles struggle to bear her weight. Her weight is ruining her life but after huge amounts of therapy she still can't lose it.

Don't tell me that it's as simple as just eating less and exercising more. That's absurdly, insultingly simplistic.

But Patsy - if the overwhelming attitude is that there should not be items on fashion (without condemnation of their being overweight) for those "bigger women" then the impression could be given that bigger women are to be ignored, are not likely to consider swimming as something they can do (perhaps as part of a fitness programme) and if there's outward condemnation (and bullying at school seems common) then there will be bigger women feeling they are no longer part of acceptable society, and that staying at home may become a preferred choice to avoid embarrassment.

The mere fact that there are views saying the word "curvy" should not have been used acts like the tip of an iceberg, many less polite comments may be made via text or facebook etc, if not face to face, and it doesn't exactly show us humans as being caring, or friendly, when a portion of society feels "picked on".

Not the same, but red haired people still get jibes made at them for no reason other than they are a minority. We don't insult left-handed people, because 99% of the time we cannot spot them, but there are lots who are "easy targets" and some prefer to shelter at home than face hostility.

Hey ladyybiscuit - ignoring the fact this is thread was all about swimwear for a mintue (!)- can your friend swim? or try aqua aerobics? could you go with her? It is so good for people with problems like hers where bones are struggling with the weight as it is very very low impact and the water takes a lot of the weight. I've seen lots of obese and elderly and pregnant women do this at the aqua class my gym runs and they really are a good workout!

LB it wasn't Patsy who suggested "eating less, exercising more", unless you were meaning that it may be a common response that could be trotted out...

Good idea coraltoes - I wish she would do that. I think enjoying what your body can do - taking pleasure in your muscles and limbs, is the key to weightloss really. Sadly I can't go with her - live on the other side of London and am a single parent so don't even manage it myself!

NG - sorry, that last comment wasn't aimed at Patsy. More generally (think someone else said it)

Was Marilyn Monroe obese? By medical BMI standards, I am not sure how tall she was but at size 16 I expect she was.

giddyup She was a 1950's size 16, which is a modern size 10-12. So she wasn't overweight. Common misconception

Mosschops what else are you going to call them without being insulting and derogatory like othes have said, 'here we have a swinwear section for the obscenely fat people of this world' better still, they should stay at home and not enjoy going to the beach as they are too fat for that

Giddyup Nope she wasn't. Dress sizes were a lot smaller back then so today she would be wearing a 10.

Her measurements were 37-23-36.

On the High Street today a size 6 has a 24.5 inch waist.

So Marilyn's waist would be smaller than a size 6.

And today's dress size 16 has a 34 inch waist. 11 inches bigger than Marilyns.

Sorry, but I agree with the OP.

We shouldn't be celebrating women who are clinically obese (in the same way we shouldn't be celebrating smokers or those addicted to alocohol). There's nothing wrong with clinically obese people wearing swimsuits - or whatever they like - but there is something wrong with pretending like it isn't a problem.

In the same way that smokers are subjected to hard hitting adverts, why shouldn't obese people be subjected to the truth? The truth is that you can wear clothes like this if you want but actually, you should lose weight because it's mightily unhealthy.

There is a difference between curvy and clinically obese.

So for those of you that agree with the OP, bearing in mind overweight people tend to know that they aren't a healthy weight (bit hard to miss really ).

Then add in the fact that losing weight rapidly is also not healthy, so there will be a time when they are larger.

Also take into account the fact that not all weight gain is as simple as eating too much, exercising too little.

How would you like to see overweight people shown in the media? Especially fashion media?

Should they show larger sizes (yes, even obese) on fashion shows? Or do you think fashion shows should only show "healthy" people?

Do you think larger people should be given advice on how to look good at their current weight? Or just told to slim down?

Should only healthy sized people be encouraged to feel good about themselves?

Do you think that feeling good about themselves is going to make them not want to lose weight? Or do you think it might give them the energy to do something?

With the last point, do you think that maybe they should be encouraged to find swimwear that they don't feel paranoid in, seeing as swimming is such great exercise? And IME the larger you are the less likely you are to swim as swimming costumes are so unforgiving.

Right now I cannot see how you can have thought any of this through if you object so strongly to the TV programme mentioned in the OP.

On those measurements, depending upon the store, Marilyn would be a modern size 14 on the bust, a six around the waist and a 12/14 on the hips. That's according to Next.

According to Miss Selfridge, she'd be a size 12/14 bust (a full 2 inches between sizes), a size 6 waist and a 10 around the waist.

Just shows what a whole load of shite dress sizes are then really.

sorry, that should say size 10 hips for Miss Selfridge.