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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

four year old needs some help

80 replies

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 18:08

DD is 4.8 and starts school this Sept. She has always been painfully shy but over the last few months has started to be a bit more confident with others. She still finds it hard to speak to adults, especially people she doesn't know well.
She saw a poster for a drama workshop,|= which runs Tues-Fri this week and begged me to let her go. This is very unusual for her and I explained that I couldn't stay, I would be at home with 2 year old DS. She was fine with this.

So this morning I took her in, she was a bit nervous but within a couple of minutes she was running around the hall and waved goodbye happily. I spoke to the teacher, explained that dd was unlikely to speak out as very shy so to please make sure she went to the toilet/had a drink etc in the breaks. She said all the younger ones are taken to toilet at break, not asked to put hands up.

I arrived to pick her up and noticed she was wearing different trousers. Teacher took me aside and explained that she's wet herself and been really embarrased & upset in front of the other children. Then I spoke to main teacher who said dd had not asked to go (which I had told her would happen). Because of needing a wee so badly, dd didn't touch her drink. Also dd's lunchbox was still almost full. She said she hadn't been able to open the tubs to get her food out. Sandwiches were in clingfilm so she's eaten them. I spoke to the main teacher again and she said dd didn't ask for help and teachers hadn't offered. There were about 15 kids there (aged 4-10) and 4 teachers. AIBU to think dd could have been given a bit of help, especially since I had told them she was unlikely to ask? I will wrap all her food in clingfilm tomorrow anyway so she can at least eat her lunch.

OP posts:

colditz · 03/08/2010 18:12

YABU

I think you should have checked that she could feed herself and toilet herself before sending her to drama classes, to be honest.

You need to check that she can open all her own tubs before she starts school because the same will happen there, and you need to train her to ask for the toilet or accidents will happen. She's nearly five, people don't expect to have to practically potty train children of this age.

And I speak as the parent of a 4 year old who shat himself spectacularly this morning.

Mowgli1970 · 03/08/2010 18:16

YANBU to think they could have offered some help, particularly as it's such a high adult:child ratio. They should have helped her and expected to help such a young child in a new environment. Good for her though for wanting to go back!

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 18:17

She does feed herself and toilet herself and hasn't wet herself for over 2 years. But in a completely new environment, knowing nobody at all, she didn't have the courage to ask. I had specifically asked the teacher about the routine and she told me all the 4/5 year olds were taken to the toilet, not expected to ask.

And I speak as an early years/KS1 teacher with years of experience of settling reception children in.

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 03/08/2010 18:17

That's really bad. She is one of the youngest there, you asked the teacher to 'keep an eye on her' and they didn't and your DD was embarrased and upset

However, maybe this is an opportunity for your DD to understand that she needs to speak up for herself a bit more, or school will be a nightmare.

Tomorrow I would ask the teacher if it's possible for DD to have one special teacher/helper/bigger child that she can ask for things so it's more one on one. Explain to them how big a deal this is that she has chosen to do this and that you don't want her experiences there to put her off of coming back/doing other things.

Good luck!

colditz · 03/08/2010 18:18

AIBU?

Yes

NO I'm not!

Why ask? If you don't think you are being unreasonable, why ask?

compo · 03/08/2010 18:20

She sounds too young for such a workshop tbh
a reception class will only have kids her age not an age range up to 10

unfitmother · 03/08/2010 18:24

Sounds a bit young to me, hope it goes better tomorrow.

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 18:24

Colditz I did not say IANBU, I was replying to your comment that I should have checked dd could feed and toilet herself. I did. She can. She manages this at home and at nursery no problem.

I thought the point of AIBU was to generate discussion.

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 18:26

The workshop is for 4-13 year olds and I thought it would be a good confidence booster for her. Hopefully the rest of the week will go better.

OP posts:

colditz · 03/08/2010 18:30

but she couldn't open her tubs - you said that - so her ability to feed herself is heavily dependent on whether you are there. And she wet herself - so clearly for whatever reason, her toileting is lacking.

It's ok saying she can do these things, but when she needed to do it, she couldn't.

colditz · 03/08/2010 18:31

I think the idea of getting one person 'in charge' of her is a good one. Get her to pick a grown up she can ask for the toilet. And wrap everything in clingfilmn.

PixieOnaLeaf · 03/08/2010 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MumInBeds · 03/08/2010 18:35

As well as asking a special grown up for help could you ask if you could show her the toilet before you leave tomorrow? Once she has seen it she might feel more confident asking to go there.

GiddyPickle · 03/08/2010 18:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 18:45

I did show her the toilet this morning, she was just too scared to ask to leave the room. I think it is more accurate to say her confidence is lacking, rather than her ability to go to the toilet. She was unable to hold on for 6 hours, is that unusual in a pre school child?

So IABU but feel very sad that all the teachers and other children were eating in the same room as dd and nobody thought it was strange that she wasn't eating or asked if she was ok.

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 03/08/2010 18:57

Does she need to ask to leave the room to go to the toilet or is it somewhere she could go without asking?

Anyway, as I said earlier, I think the best thing is to get her buddied up to one person who she would feel comfortable asking.

I agree, it is sad that no-one noticed her not eating at lunchtime, but maybe they had seen her eating her sandwiches and assumed she'd finished.

Did she seem OK when you picked her up?

I hope she wants to go back tomorrow.

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 19:04

No, she was in tears when I arrived and really embarrassed. She has perked up a bit since we got home and I think she will be ok to go back tomorrow.

The toilet is down the corridor from the school hall (not our local school, first time we've been there) and I'm guessing they're not allowed to just wander in and out as they please as they're rehearsing a play.

The teacher seemed to think that as dd is not the youngest child there (her own daughter is there and is 6 months younger) she should not need any help. I will suggest that dd pairs up with her dd for the week as they are both 4 and teacher's dd is very confident.

OP posts:

NoTeaForMe · 03/08/2010 19:05

Unfortunately accidents do happen at this age in these circumstances, although you asked the drama staff to keep an eye on her it was purely an accident, however upsetting it was for your daughter.

I do think that you were being a bit silly to send her with a lunch she could not open, especially knowing she wouldn't ask anyone for help. It's all well and good saying that someone should have helped her but why put her in that situation in the first place. What if all
the mums gave the children a lunch they couldn't open. Then the drama staff would be opening lunches longer than doing drama!!! I have worked in nursery settings and in reception (currently in year 1) and it amazes me the amount of times the children bring in an orange they can't peel. I'm sure all the mums think "someone will help" and yes of course we will buy when everyone does that it gets ridiculous, your child is not the only child there.

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 19:25

I have worked on playschemes and have always known staff to sit with the children and help them to open their food. This is a designated lunch break, not drama time, and it takes a few seconds to open to tubs and peel the wrapper off a piece of cheese. I would say two thirds of the children were aged seven or over and so in full time school and probably able to do without any help.

Clingfilm it is.

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 19:26

Sorry, two tubs

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 03/08/2010 19:32

I remember when I was in reception (same age as your DD as I'm an early in the year baby) and it was almost time to go home, I had asked to go to the toilet but was told I had to wait until after school - I asked again, said it was urgent and was sent back to my desk to stand behind it, with the chairs up ( yes I am that old!!) and to this day I can feel the utter utter shame of not being able to stop myself weeing... I was the same age as your DD and had been dry since 16 months (my Mum was on a mission!! LOL). It was clearly traumatic as I still remember it soooo clearly When you have been 'dry' for a long long time it's as embarassing as it is for an adult, it's not like a newly trained child.

It's OK for her DD to be 'confident' her Mum is there!!!

Original poster

MrsDermotOleary · 03/08/2010 19:41

Poor you chippingIn it must be horrible in front of everyone. And her shoes and socks were soaked too.

Luckily I still haven't got round to taking the buggy board off, otherwise she would have had to walk home in wee-soaked shoes.

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 03/08/2010 19:44

I just stood there, feeling it running down my leg and the tears running down my face ... such humiliation!

I would have had to walk home (only one car in those days and Dad took it to work - so 70's ) - although I don't remember that part.

thesecondcoming · 03/08/2010 19:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blametheparents · 03/08/2010 19:55

With such a high child:adult ratio I am surprised that nobody asked her if she wanted any help.
However, I personally feel a 4 year old is too young for summer camp style activities.
They say they take from 4, but of course they do cos they want to maximise their numbers.
DD has just left Reception and is 5.5, she has been asking to go to a gymnsatics course at the place she USUALLY goes, and I am still hesitant. A day is a long time if they feel worried or upset.

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